Writing Workshop

(Egregious/27147) Oh, is "fetch" going to finally happen?

Egregious@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 06:58:00 -0600

Oh, is "fetch" going to finally happen?

(Giraffe/27145) That justifiably jams up my jocabulary.

Giraffe@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 11:47:00 -0600

That justifiably jams up my jocabulary.

(Salamano/27144) I noticed that there were no words beginning with the letter 'J'...

Salamano@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 10:49:00 -0600


I noticed that there were no words beginning with the letter 'J' on the list.
Not even jejune...

(Steppenwolf/27143) Soemone's list of the 100 most beautiful words in the English la...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 18 Feb 2012 03:46:00 -0600

Soemone's list of the 100 most beautiful words in the English language:

http://nedhardy.com/2011/05/15/100-most-beautiful-words-in-the-english-language
/

Some aweosme ones in there.

(Lochner/27142) All good suggestions, thank you everybody for your ideas. I've ...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 05:55:00 -0600


All good suggestions, thank you everybody for your ideas.  I've stuck with
"flatly" although I don't like that word, for various reasons that nobody here
would care about but it has to do with principles of adversarial comity in
legal writing.

(Clockworks/27141) If the concept you are trying to get across is that speaker 2 is...

Clockworks@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 02 Feb 2012 05:39:00 -0600

If the concept you are trying to get across is that speaker 2 is deliberately
leaving out person A's justification, then just use "deliberately". There isn't
a better word that I can think of.

(Salamano/27140) It's neither short, nor crisp, but "peremptorily" certainly fits...

Salamano@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 01 Feb 2012 13:49:00 -0600


It's neither short, nor crisp, but "peremptorily" certainly fits the bill,
counselor!

(Trillian/27139) I don't know, I think the sentence is pretty clear without the w...

Trillian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 09:08:00 -0600

I don't know, I think the sentence is pretty clear without the word flatly or
any other modifier. I can see you want something more in there to underscore
it-- but, depending on your audience, you might want them to draw the
conclusion? Otherwise, it is ala Demi Moore's character, in a Few Good Men --
STRENUOUSLY onjecting when the objection did not work-- if you get what I'm
saying.

(Knightshade/27138) brazenly!

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:48:00 -0600

brazenly!

(Rian/27137) Completely? Simply?

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:42:00 -0600

Completely?  Simply?
Or for that matter, 'deliberately' fits the bill, which you used in your
explanation anyway.  Though it's not short and snappy, admittedly.

(Lochner/27136) Premise:

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 06:38:00 -0600


Premise:

  Person A says:  "I broke into the garage because it was storming and I
                   needed shelter."

  Person B says:  "Person A admits that he broke into the garage."

I want to write something like this:

  "Person B's assertion flatly ignores Person A's unambiguous statement that
the reason he broke into the garage was to seek shelter."

  The word I don't like is "flatly."  I see it used all the time, but I don't
like it.  The connotation I want to convey is that the person is deliberately
and intentionally ignoring that statement because if they have to or their
point doesn't work.

  Imagine a person deliberately turning a blind eye to a patently obvious
observation.... I need a short, crisp adverb to convey that and I'm not coming
up with anything.

(Peccavimus/27135) I think the problem there is that the author wanted to use the c...

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:01:00 -0600

I think the problem there is that the author wanted to use the cliche, realized
that the foreigners wouldn't use that particular phrase, and then marked it so
he didn't look lazy.  But it is lazy.

Figure out the native idiom, or just skip the cliche entirely.

(Egregious/27134) I'm reading something where foreigners are using American idioms...

Egregious@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 30 Dec 2011 06:52:00 -0600


I'm reading something where foreigners are using American idioms, and
they always explain it with something like "as you Americans would
say, the shoe is on the other foot."

Maybe I'm cursed because everytime I read that I get yanked out of the
story.  I've read that construction so many times it's now a cliche
and clunky.

But what better ways are there to handle it?

(Rian/27133) twitches The Brandenburg Concertos were a nemesis of mine in h...

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 05:06:00 -0600

*twitches* The Brandenburg Concertos were a nemesis of mine in high school.  I
played violin, and there's this run of 16th notes in the middle of the second
movement...
Thanks, Giraffe.  I may not be able to write the rest of the week now :P

(Giraffe/27132) When I was in college and trying to stay focus on some form of c...

Giraffe@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 02:12:00 -0600

When I was in college and trying to stay focus on some form of creative work, I
would play a tape of the Brandenburg Concertos over and over and over. never
got tired of it.  Talking Heads was good, too, though.

(Q Who/27131) I find that listening to music distracts me from the story I'm t...

Q Who@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:39:00 -0600

I find that listening to music distracts me from the story I'm trying to write.
On the other hand, music most often inspires an idea for a story. I just go
where the music I heard before I started writing takes me.

(Lochner/27130) How many of you find that listening to a certain kind of music i...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:32:00 -0600


How many of you find that listening to a certain kind of music is conducing to
a certain kind of writing?

I've got a playlist of songs I listen to when I'm writing intense drama, for
example.

But I've got, and only one song I listen to when I'm writing something that is
emotionally draining or taxing, like a sad scene -- "Ruled by Secretary" by
Muse.

(Lochner/27129) This is all I've got for my manowrimo so far. This is my lawy...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:05:00 -0500

This is all I've got for my manowrimo so far.    This is my lawyer book I'm
working on.  This scene might not even make it in, I kinda thing the narrative
arc needs to start after these two are  already working together and I'm not
thrilled with the dynamic I wrote here, it's a bit forced and I don't want the
senior guy to come across as a dick so much as just a social introvert with no
personal skills.


Anyway,...




  He crossed the small office, frowning, his wrinkled suit looking dingy in the
yellow light reflecting off the wood finish of the shelves and battered chair
rail.  Reaching the small wine cooler, he opened it and pulled out a pint glass
and a bottle of beer.  Standing up, he nudged the cooler with his knee, turned
around, and set the pint glass on the desk.

"Catalina island cherry," he said, gesturing vaguely toward the desk.
The wood finish was well-worn, and it was badly in need of refinishing.  He
opened the top drawer, pulled a bottle opener from it, and popped the top off
the bottle with a practiced motion.  Placing the bottle opener on the desk, he
finally sat down and began to pour the beer.  A black lager, by the look of it.

"Is it really?" asked Louis.

"Yes, indeed," said the old man.  Louis gave the man an appraising
look, and decided that he wasn't nearly as old as he appeared.  "I couldn't
tell you how I know that, it's been so long.  But the wood is Catalina island
cherry."  The old man took a law pull from the pint glass, savored the beer for
a moment, and then swallowed audibly.  "So!" he said, suddenly sitting forward
and looking Louis in the eye.  "Let's start."

"Yes, sir," said Louis.  "To be honest, this is my first one of these,
so I'm not really sure how this works."

"It works like this," said the old man with an envious smile.  He
wishes he was being interviewed, Louis realized.  "When you talk out of here,
another guy who is just as qualified will walk in.  And when that guy leaves,
another guy just as qualified as the both of you will walk in.  I'll talk to
two hundred guys over the next six weeks like that, for less than ten minutes
each, and then I'll decide which of you to hire.  You've got ten minutes to
make me remember who you are when I sit down in two months to pick an
assistant.  Any questions?

"Yes, one," Louis said.  "If this position is hotly sought after and
the qualifications are so high, how do you make a decision on the basis of a
ten minute interview?  Why do I want to work for somebody who only needs ten
minutes to make an important decision?  I spend more time than that choosing
between Cap'n Crunch and Frankenberry in the morning."

  The old man snorted, took another draw from his beer, and then leaned
back and laced his fingers behind his head.  "Well," he said. "The truth is
that you're all interchangeable.  You went to Yale.  The next guy went to
Cornell.  The guy after that went to Chicago.  I guess in the end, I'll hire
the son of a bitch I think will piss me off the least."

"I'm probably off to a bad start then," said Louis, "but I'm afraid I
have to make it worse.  You've got my qualifications wrong, I'm not Ivy
League."

"No?" said the man, expressing what Louis perceived as his first
unreheared emotion of the morning - mild surprise.  He quickly recovered,
however, and put back in place a mask of tedium and disinterest.  "Well, I'll
have to have a chat with my secretary, she seems to have loosened the interview
requirements without asking.  That's one thing I'll remember about you."

"Well, that's sort of my story, Mr. Kent.  I have a knack for being
remembered for the wrong reasons.  When we wrap the case, remind me to tell you
about the fried chicken sandwich incident."

"You're getting ahead of yourself, son.  Fried chicken?"  Louis took
some internal satisfaction in eliciting Kent's second genuine emotion of the
day: confusion.  Again, Kent quickly recovered and took command of the
conversation.  "Got a resume?"

"Of course."  Louis pulled open his briefcase, removed a crisp copy on
white bond paper, and sent it skidding across the desk with a casual flick of
the wrist.  Kent stopped it with his thumb, and picked it up.  Reaching into
his breast pocket, he pulled out a pair of thick abused eyeglasses that, Louis
guessed, were manufactured in the mid-1980s.  Perching the bifocuals on his
nose, Kent looked down through them at the paper, his mouth forming a slight
"O" as he read.

"Pen?" Kent asked, his open hand held out before Louis without looking
up.  Louis silently reached into his own breast pocket and slapped the pen into
Kent's palm."

"Israeli olive wood," Louis said, "harvested from naturally felled
trees near Calvary Hill."  Kent looked up from the resume at the wooden pen
Louis had placed in his palm, and then at Louis with a curious lift of the
eyebrow.  "Hand-turned," Louis clarified.  "The blood of Jesus Christ could be
within your hand."  Kent opened the pen and returned his gaze the paper, making
notes on the resume.

"If you think," Kent said without looking up, "that you'll get a job
here by simply being obnoxious, you're mistaken."

"With all due respect, Mr. Kent, I went to law school with your last
associate and the only two things he had a talent for were impregnating
secretaries and being obnoxious.  It's my understanding he put both skills to
good use while in your employ.  That's probably why your secretary is
unfamiliar with your interview requirements: she's a temp for your usual
secretary, who should be out on maternity leave about now."

Kent looked up with his third unrehearsed emotion of the day, but Louis
couldn't read it.  Not anger, surprise, or annoyance.  Nor interest.  Just
casual regard.  "You are strangely well-informed for a boy with a public school
education, Mr. Durrant."

"Right place, right time," Louis replied easily.  "I think my ten
minutes is nearly up."

"I do have one question for you before you go."

"Yes, sir, I'll take a crack at it."

"What is your greatest personal strength?"

"Easy," said Louis.  "Lack of confidence."

"I said, 'strength,' Mr. Durrant."

"I heard you," said Louis.  "The answer is my lack of confidence."

(Rian/27128) I'm supposedly participating :) I do it every year, mostly to s...

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 09:40:00 -0500

I'm supposedly participating :)  I do it every year, mostly to see how much a
plot idea has behind it.  I figure if I can do 50-100K on something, move a
story forward however badly, then it's worth doing for real... and it also
helps me keep in touch with a lot of writing orgsand networks (we've got strong
partnerships here between the Nano community and some of the professional
writing groups; one of our annual events is, for instance, at the Texas
Writers' League HQ, etc).  But I attended out midnight kickoff, wrote 2K words,
and promptly came down with a respiratory flu.  This is the first time I've had
the computer on, since.  Hoping to get back tomorrow... I'm about wiped out
just from checking email and 10-15 minutes on isca.

(Jubilee/27127) I'm karalianne on the forums. ML for Saskatoon and moderator of ...

Jubilee@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 05:28:00 -0500

I'm karalianne on the forums. ML for Saskatoon and moderator of Reference Desk.
:) I have nearly 3k words. Also, you are not really behind yet! :)

(Lochner/27126) It's NaNoWrMo again, is anybody participating? I've been doing ...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 03 Nov 2011 03:37:00 -0500


It's NaNoWrMo again, is anybody participating?  I've been doing some basic
research on dramatic structure to prepare for it, but we're on Nov 3 already
and I haven't done any writing yet.

(Steppenwolf/27125) It hadn't even occurred to me that, with no law school and a par...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 13 Oct 2011 02:54:00 -0500

It hadn't even occurred to me that, with no law school and a part-time job,
that I could feasibly do NaNoWriMo again.

But I won't. For one, my job is a writing job. For two, I can't quite swing it
with parenting and other labors. For three, I don't have any ideas, though I
imagine I could generate one in the next three months.

(JuggernautXL/27124) I'm currently tossing around scenarios for a story I would like ...

JuggernautXL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 22:05:00 -0500

I'm currently tossing around scenarios for a story I would like to see expanded
from the kernel of an idea.

Starting another internship though, so starting to doubt if I will have time.
Which is fine, I'll have a year to flesh out the kernels into scene level
summaries, ala the snow flake method.

(Jubilee/27123) I'm writing fantasy this year - my YA series is getting too dens...

Jubilee@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 18:19:00 -0500

I'm writing fantasy this year - my YA series is getting too dense with
characters and I need to sit down and get a database going and actually figure
out the whole series before I do anything else with it.

I'm karalianne on the boards, ML for Saskatoon and moderator of the Reference
Desk and the Age Group: Teens. I've been modding RD since 2006, but this is my
first year with the teens. Both are hopping forums; luckily, I have co-mods in
both.

(Lochner/27122) I've got a great story I want to tell that I think is better sui...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 10:45:00 -0500


I've got a great story I want to tell that I think is better suited for film
but I have a better shot at getting a novel version published.

It's based on an incident during the Vietnam war where a major defense
contractor was up for renewal and wanted to convince the DOD that one of their
planes are highly versatile, and they tried to do this by airlifting Vietnamese
orphans out of Vietnam, but something went wrong and the plane crashed, killing
half of them and the rest suffered oxygen deprivation.

I'd re-set that in the context of the Iraq war, but the story I want to tell is
about the legal fight that followed, a government cover-up, and one attorney
who believed in the case and kept chasing and chasing it until he found damning
evidence that was covered up by the government, and he got a new trial based on
that.

And it's a true story, this what happened in the actual case.

(Rian/27121) I'm in; in fact, I just logged off the nanowrimo boards :)

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 07:57:00 -0500

I'm in; in fact, I just logged off the nanowrimo boards :)
I've got three ideas percolating - one is something I tried before, but fell
flat after 5K words. I think I trust myself better now to do it right (a YA
coming of age story, pure lit-fic), but I tend to use nano more to see if an
idea has something, and I know that one does.
So instead, I'm starting with a Steampunk idea.  This spring/ summer, I
answered to a call for submissions for a Steampunk Shakespeare, but I didn;t
use my original idea, because the word count limit was 10K, and I didn't think
that gave me enough room to do what I had in mind.  As it was, what I did came
in at over 14K in first draft, and I had to edit down to 10,100, which was as
slashed as I could get it.  So I'll approach the original idea here, and see
what I get :)  If that doesn;t work out, I have another Steampunk idea (this
one more of an old-style adventure) and the YA litfic.

(Trillian/27120) Anyone gearing up for NAtional NOvel WRiting MOnth (NANOWRIMO) -...

Trillian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 12 Oct 2011 07:46:00 -0500

Anyone gearing up for NAtional NOvel WRiting MOnth (NANOWRIMO) -- November?
Have any ideas percolating? Cheating by using something already started?
Wondering what folks are up to.

(River Rat/27119) There is a new application by Adobe called Adobe Story.

River Rat@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 11 Oct 2011 21:16:00 -0500

There is a new application by Adobe called Adobe Story.

http://story.adobe.com/ It is free until April 12, 2012.

(Peccavimus/27118) Wow. Sorry to hear that. He's got a major malfunction, it soun...

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:40:00 -0500

Wow.  Sorry to hear that.  He's got a major malfunction, it sounds like.

Even information in the public domain (which I assume, but don't know for sure,
that wikipedia is) must be cited.  It's not a matter of respecting copyright;
it's a matter of intellectual integrity.

(SledgeHammer/27117) Followup on Dr. Dumbass. He nagged me for progress, and I asked ...

SledgeHammer@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:55:00 -0500

Followup on Dr. Dumbass. He nagged me for progress, and I asked him why the
hell he copied so many footnotes. He informed me that information from Wikipedi
was free, etc., and when I didn't reply to that within 24 hours, he went
ballistic and emailed everyone on the project (cover designer, etc.) some
snarky thing that I deleted after skimming.

I think I now know why 3-4 other publishers in the US passed on this book. I
feel stupid for not picking it up sooner, but wonder what the French and German
publishers knew about it.

(Smoke Eater/27116) I'd say yes. He's a professor, right? He ought to know better ...

Smoke Eater@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 16:19:00 -0500

I'd say yes.  He's a professor, right?  He ought to know better than to
plagiarize.  If you help him get it published, you might open yourself up to
the same liability if the copyright holders find out and decide to go after
him.

Not to mention if he is really dying, and he dies sooner rather than later, you
might be on the hook by yourself.

(SledgeHammer/27115) A writing question for y'all.

SledgeHammer@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 23 Sep 2011 13:13:00 -0500

A writing question for y'all.

I have published several of my own books; I get them professionally edited, buy
a block of ISBNs, have the covers professionally made, and then print them.
Recently, I decided to take on a project for a friend; never met the guy, but
he's in the same area of work that I am, and he says he has renal cancer. Don't
know if it's true or not. He's published a book that was printed in German and
French; no American published would take it up, and he wanted to see it printed
in English before he dies. Again- no idea if he's dying or not.

So, being stupid, I offered to do it. I get this book, and it's pretty bad.
It's on a subject that has been done to pieces, and it's not terribly
well-written (English from a guy who is Belgian). Nothing that's going to be a
real page-turner.

None of these issues is a problem; most of that can be fixed. The real problem
is the plagiarism. The first hint was in a chapter near the beginning; one of
the footnotes had hyperlinks in it. I google it up- copied verbatim from
Wikipedia. No attribution. Fuck. I notice the font is different (Web font), and
when I search for that, it's in several footnotes. In fact, I think every
chapter (out of 30-some chapters) has at least one footnote that is copied
at least in part from Wikipedia.

The problem is: he doesn't see anything wrong with this.

I'm ready to kite the whole project, but I was looking for opinions. The guy's
a Belgian professor; he really should know better than to just steal stuff like
this, and I'm kind of split; it *is* minor- just footnotes (as best as I know-
I've tried Googling suspect phrases, and every now and again, it's clear a part
of a paragraph or two is simply mis-worded stuff from a web page). Should I
just toss the whole project in the trash?

(Egregious/27114) I found that exposition has to be ladled out very carefully. So...

Egregious@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 13 Sep 2011 11:10:00 -0500


I found that exposition has to be ladled out very carefully.  Some of
it you can just do with an adjective, but others you need to have one
character fill another character in about something, or someone think
back to just how they got there.  And break it up!

(-- anonymous -- <>/27113) One thing I've found helpful in writing is to spend more time ta...

Thu, 10 Nov 2011 17:30:51 -0600

One thing I've found helpful in writing is to spend more time talking to
editors.  A good editor really understands the rhetorical framing of a scene,
the center action, the falling action, etc.  I find that the old movie cliche,
"Get in late, get out early" often applies to writing, particularly if you want
to create a sense of urgency and tension in your writing.

When I sit down to write, I have in my head the pieces of dialog I want on the
page, and I start writing and I keep backing up and backing up to get to an
earlier point to present the reader with all of this information.  But reading
an entire conversation is tedious, and boring.  Conversations are like dreams;
if you're having a good one, you suddenly find yourself an hour into it with no
memory of how you got there.

Doing editing work, and talking to editors, I find is helpful to focus on what
it takes to make a chapter work, and to foster character development and to
advance the action of the story.  There's one basic question I try to ask
before I write a scene: what is this scene about?  And I try to step away from
what I want the characters to do, and think more about what I want the READER
to want the characters to do and say, and then craft the narrative so that they
are set up to do and say those things, but they don't do it yet, you have to
keep reading.

Always leave them wanting more.

Thoughts?

(Trillian/27112) Jubilee: I agree with you! In classical literature, Terence says...

Trillian@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 27 Aug 2011 07:38:00 -0500

Jubilee: I agree with you! In classical literature, Terence says: "Nothing
human is foreign to me" And then we have Montaigne, Oscar Wilde and so many
more who agree. Add that to Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem Ulysees: "I am a part
of all that I have met"

Being human, being open to human experience, qualifies us for a lot. We can, as
humans, learn from others' mistakes, and imagine others' experiences-- even if
they only happen in books, or if they happen online, on the news, or next door.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(UNRELATED)

Perhaps I should apologize for putting this next!
This last 2 weeks I've been on vacation, and I have jumped headlong into "chick
lit," with loads of beachy novels, mostly by the authors Claire Cook (Movie:
Must Love Dogs) and Jennifer Weiner (Movie: In Her Shoes)

My college profs all wanted me to write the Next Great American Novel (TM)
and it strikes me that if I aim for fun instead, I might just be able to do it.
I can always go for the "N.G.A.N." Later. :)

In college I had seemingly inifinite horrid episodes of writers block, and then
right before the deadline, I'd choke back tears and a sense that I had nothing
to say, to write the paper anyway, however unworthy it was, because anything
was better than a zero in the gradebook! But I am NOT one who does her best
work under pressure.

So, rather than force myself to write by anxiety, I'm trying to motivate myself
with fun. I don't want to lower my expectations, but I want to make them a bit
more accessible to begin with.

And, Jennifer Weiner is a Princeton graduate. She even wrote a pretty decent
mystery in one of her books-- that appealed to me a lot! So, hey, Im willing to
consider writing in a different genre. I know where I want to go, but I can
stop along the way in any number of other places!

I think this is why Im reading all over the spectrum now -- finding devices,
character elements, all kinds of observations while I read.

(Jubilee/27111) Write what you know: I think that you have to take that with a g...

Jubilee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:28:00 -0500

Write what you know: I think that you have to take that with a grain of salt,
really. The main thing I focus on in my writing is that I know what it is to be
a human being. Everything else can be learned.

So I have a series of YA novels in progress. Each book has a different main
character, and each main character has a different disability. So far, I have
an autistic 14yo girl; an undiagnosed 16yo girl; a 17yo boy who has ADHD; a
13yo boy who has cerebral palsy; a 16yo girl who has Down syndrome; and a 17yo
boy who has some kind of cognitive disability. My qualifications? Well, I used
to be a teenage girl. And I have ADHD. Oh, and I worked with autistic kids for
10 years. The rest I can learn from friends who have the disorders and from
books about the disorders.

Other things I have to deal with in these books include: the 14yo autistic girl
is a gymnast, and I haven't taken gymnastics since I was 11yo; the 16yo girl
who has no diagnosis is a ballet dancer, and I haven't taken ballet since I was
14yo (and I was never as good as she is); the 17yo ADHDer is an artist, and
while I dabble, I don't have the experience he does; the 13yo boy who has
cerebral palsy is gay; the 16yo girl who has Down syndrome is a tad obsessive
and stalker-y; and the 17yo with the cognitive disability is transitioning into
adult services, which is a field I've never even worked in.

But that's all stuff I can learn about.

What's weird is that none of them are musicians. And I used to be.

(Trillian/27110) Steppenwolf: I read the 'personal space' one, and I not only fou...

Trillian@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 12:05:00 -0500

Steppenwolf: I read the 'personal space' one, and I not only found it
intriguing, it reminded me of something Id read in college, but I never did
fully place it. I took a short story class in princeton at the community
college for the heck of it, and Im sure it was in that anthology we used.
(Which I no longer own, darnit.) I wish I did, as I love short stories.

Write what you know: I look at this the other way, too. I can learn something
until I know it well enough to write about it.

I'm learning from many writers right now, devices and methods of storytelling,
but also thrusting myself into crime, crime-scene investigation, autopsies...
the whole shebang. It started in my real life, when I was a medical
transcriptionist and found that I found autopsies fascinating. They tell you so
much. And, I like reading obituaries as ways to find the shortest way to
describe a character, for descriptions and illustrations of life.

And then I stumbled into cable tv, and found "Criminal Minds" and have watched
all but 6 episodes of the first 5 seasons. (Who knew you could map dump sites
and come up with a geographic profile?) I found the FBI evidence manual online
for free. I did watch some CSI shows, but couldnt maintain my interest beyond
learning about various crime-related databases. Sometimes the CSI tv shows'
characterizations seemed too shallow. Usually sweeps week sucked, realism gone.

Then, Lo and behold, a serial killer was found here in Cleveland. The local
journalism was instructive -- some of it was insightful, some of it boring.
The victims pictures paraded in the media often, the killer had a type, and it
turns out, a few would be victims had escaped. The trial was anticlimactic.
That initial shock of -- a serial killer -- a few corners away from my old
address -- wore off, but the clarity of the feeling stays with me.

Turns out, I am beginning to know enough to write what I know!

(Mean Mr Mustard/27109) Some sort of philosophical bent to it, ISTR--you should send it ...

Mean Mr Mustard@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 09:34:00 -0500

Some sort of philosophical bent to it, ISTR--you should send it to Elysian
Fields Quarterly.

(Mean Mr Mustard/27108) Yup, the Cubs one. I cna't even really recall it--I am a total ...

Mean Mr Mustard@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 09:33:00 -0500

Yup, the Cubs one.  I cna't even really recall it--I am a total lit sieve--but
I remember thinking, "This is really fucking good."

I might even have saved it to disk, but all my floppies are long, long gone.

(Steppenwolf/27107) Thank you so much!

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 09:27:00 -0500

Thank you so much!
(Which one? The Cubs one? I don't remember what I've posted here.)

(Mean Mr Mustard/27106) Incidentally, Step, that was a piece of writing that I genuinely...

Mean Mr Mustard@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 09:24:00 -0500

Incidentally, Step, that was a piece of writing that I genuinely enjoyed.

(Peccavimus/27105) I gotta say, tht's kind of a crap assignment.

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:48:00 -0500

I gotta say, tht's kind of a crap assignment.

But it does remind me that I have to make a point about the role of
autobiography in writing to my creative writing class.

(Steppenwolf/27104) Wait, I take it back! Last short story I completed was about God...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:34:00 -0500

Wait, I take it back! Last short story I completed was about God, fishing, and
the Chicago Cubs.

(Steppenwolf/27103) Curiously, the last non-genre story I wrote... well, the last on...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:30:00 -0500

Curiously, the last non-genre story I wrote... well, the last one I
completed... was also about sexual assault in a way, though more realistically
it was about the notion of personal space and how it's flexible in different
contexts.

A friend of mine (about as good a writer as I am, no worse and no better)
called me out on it, noting that my protagonist had to have such a precise set
of attributes to make the plot work out that she seemed too unrealistic to
identify with.

Back to the drawing board.

(Lochner/27102) It's not a problem. But "writing what you know" is not the same...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:26:00 -0500


It's not a problem.  But "writing what you know" is not the same as
"autobiography madsquerading as fiction."

(Clockworks/27101) I'm not sure I see the problem with "writing what you know" when...

Clockworks@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 08:12:00 -0500

I'm not sure I see the problem with "writing what you know" when given an
assignment to write a non-genre shortstory. Many authors (and teachers) would
tell you that you SHOULD write what you know, that you'll be able to write with
a texture and depth you can't write with if you write "what you don't know"

That being said, I never write "what I know" because it doesn't interest me.
Which is kind of a sad self-statement I suppose. And I consider myself a genre
writer.

Maybe "shallow college short stories" should be its own genre? hee.

(Lochner/27100) Having taken writing classes at the U of Iowa, where O'Connor go...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 07:33:00 -0500


Having taken writing classes at the U of Iowa, where O'Connor got her writing
education, she's spot on.  This is how our classes went:

  Assignment:  Write a non-genre short story.

  Results:

    The girl wearing the flower dress with long straight hair she hasn't
    washed in six weeks wrote a story about being a hippie in college.

    The fat kid who wanted to be a comic book writer wrote a story about
    a chubby kid who wanted to be a comic book writer and everybody made
    fun of him for it, then at the end, Superman showed up.

    The flannel-wearing skateboarder wrote a story about a kid who was
    into grunge and skateboarding and got made fun of for not being into
    mainstream music.

    The horn-rimmed eyeglasses wearing frumpy feminist wrote a story about
    a man treating a strong, intelligent woman poorly and cheating on her
    with a pretty, but stupid, friend of hers.

    The middle-aged Russian immigrant wrote a story about a Russian
    immigrant who brought a girl with a German last name home to meet
    his mother, and she freaked out even though the girl wasn't German.

    The chubby lesbian with the crew cut and no bra wrote a story about
    a girl who discovered she was a lesbian.

    And on and on.

    To his infinite credit, the token homosexual wrote a story about a
    an imprisoned drug dealer who got out of jail, fell in with a
    Mexican drug cartel, started fucking the boss's wife, and went on the
    run.

    So when I wrote a story about a guy who (probably) raped a woman, I was
    pretty sure the class would conclude I was some kind of rapist or
    something, but during the round table, the professor said:

    "Did anybody actually like the main character in this story?"

    The lesbian raised her hand and said, "I did.  He was funny.  I'd hang
    out with him socially."

    The horn-rimmed glasses girl, in her slow, self-important drawl, said,
    "I'm fatigued of all the men in this class writing stories about violence
     against women, but I guess we all just write what we know the most about."

    My story didn't actually have a single line describing or admitting to
    the rape, until the very last line, which was:

    "I welcomed her in the overgrown parking lot of an abandoned gas station."

    The rest of it was building up the main character as a sociopath
    who was obsessed with sex, both conditions stemming from an abusive
    father who took delight in embarassing his kids, for the purpose of
    suggesting a sexual assault as the meaning of this sentence.

I ought to dig it up and poot it actually, I got an "A" on it.  I bet
it'd seem embarassingly shadllow to me now, 15 years later.

(Mean Mr Mustard/27099) "Everywhere I go, I'm asked if I think the universities stifle w...

Mean Mr Mustard@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 26 Aug 2011 07:23:00 -0500

"Everywhere I go, I'm asked if I think the universities stifle writers. My
opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them."

                       --Flannery O'Connor (1925-1964)

(JuggernautXL/27098) Sounds interesting. Think I might watch that site.

JuggernautXL@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 04 Jul 2011 01:08:00 -0500

Sounds interesting. Think I might watch that site.

(Jubilee/27097) You guys could always do Camp NaNoWriMo. July and August. August...

Jubilee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 17:53:00 -0500

You guys could always do Camp NaNoWriMo. July and August. August will have a
few more bells & whistles on the site, apparently, but I don't know anything
about them as HQ is keeping things under their hats. The site is linked from
the main NaNoWriMo web site. I think it's campnanowrimo.org or something like
that. (Only been once so far, via a link, so don't have it memorized or
anything yet.)

(JuggernautXL/27096) Xenos> Yeah, I feel the same way. Last couple of years have want...

JuggernautXL@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 02 Jul 2011 12:57:00 -0500

Xenos> Yeah, I feel the same way. Last couple of years have wanted to, but
school and work prevented me. I think this year I might be slightly less busy.

I'll try to post some exercises, as in ones I completed, starting around
september or october to get people excited.

(Peccavimus/27095) I just want to mention that my book of poetry, Second Person, is...

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 16:59:00 -0500

I just want to mention that my book of poetry, Second Person, is available for
preorder from Finishing Line Press.

http://www.finishinglinepress.com/

If you preorder, you help me out by increasing the print run and ensuring the
book goes to print, and you help yourself out by scoring a modest discount on
shipping.  At twelve dollars, it's good poetry dirt cheap.

(Xenos/27094) I just wish it wasn't in November, it's such a busy month for me...

Xenos@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 30 Jun 2011 13:29:00 -0500

I just wish it wasn't in November, it's such a busy month for me :-(

(Rian/27081) A question, for those fo you that have done this:

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 15:20:00 -0600

A question, for those fo you that have done this:
I've never entered a novel ms contest before, really, and this one wants a
synopsis of 250 words (or less)  I'm not really used to working that short for
something like this, and everything I'm coming up with is very book-jacket-ish.
Is that what I should be looking for?  I'm more used to outline-type synopses,
but for a 100K+ word ms, that's goign to come in at more than 250 words if ti's
going to be any use at all.

(Mean Mr Mustard/27070) I don't know that the Biden plagiarism issue has been unmentione...

Mean Mr Mustard@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 10:49:00 -0600

I don't know that the Biden plagiarism issue has been unmentioned over the past
twenty-odd years.
Or is it necessary in every instance to revert to the TED KENNEDY KILLED MARY
JO KOPECHNE maneuver?

(Peccavimus/27068) It looks like a fairly clever freshman comp sentence. I'd proba...

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 22:46:00 -0600

It looks like a fairly clever freshman comp sentence.  I'd probably write "what
do you mean by 'aspect' here?  Couldn't you name some of them?  How are they
'like most things in life?'  That phrase feels like filler to me.  What were
you getting at with that?" in the margin.

(Steppenwolf/27067) "Like most things in life, there are a few negative aspects to m...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 22:44:00 -0600

"Like most things in life, there are a few negative aspects to mandating
certain technology in vehicles."

I mean, that's a high school sentence, right?

Not a law school sentence?

I wish I could show you this entire paper.  It's... unforgivable.

(Different one from the last.)

(Giraffe/27066) Books and movies of people acting crazy? Psycho. One Flew Over...

Giraffe@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 22:22:00 -0600

Books and movies of people acting crazy?  Psycho.  One Flew Over the Cuckoo's
Nest.  Naked Lunch.  Rain Man.  K-PAX.  Rachel Getting Married.

(Steppenwolf/27065) Good catch, TB. I think (if I were going with her original point...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 09:15:00 -0600

Good catch, TB. I think (if I were going with her original point), I'd say that
"Just as species must adapt to changing conditions or risk extinction, the law
must adapt to social changes or risk irrelevance."

It's scientfically muddled, but the comparison remains clearer.

(Tom Brady/27064) That opening sentence's first problem is grammar. Drop the expl...

Tom Brady@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:42:00 -0600

That opening sentence's first problem is grammar.  Drop the explanation of
natural selection and it still sounds weird because the comparison is between a
noun phrase, "the process of natural selection", and an imperative verb phrase,
"the law must adapt".  Perhaps:

"Just as nature evolves through the process of natural selection, the law must
evolve to reflect societal changes.  Similar to the way genetic traits are lost
because they do not aid in survival, some statutes should fall off the books as
they fail to aid the judicial process."

Unless of course, the subject of the paper is that law should reflect the
popular culture and not be a constant, in which case the entire comparison is
off-base.

(Trillian/27063) Of course, if we speak of plaigiarism, we must speak of G. Dubya...

Trillian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 17 Nov 2010 06:55:00 -0600

Of course, if we speak of plaigiarism, we must speak of G. Dubya Bush.
Or, not. Shesh. The ghostwriters needed to make sure this didn't happen.

Hey, on a more serious note: I am NANOWRIMOing a piece about mental illness.
I am trying to use as many references from movies, books and mass media that
show someone being "crazy." For example, the famous scene in _Private Benjamin_
when her lipstick slides off her lips and zig-zags from there. It's a telling
moment.

Can anyone think of famous examples?  I have moments from
_Like Water for Chocolate_ and _Benny & Joon_ as well.

Thanks in advance for your consideration.

(Xenos/27062) He probably copied the paragraph from some web page somewhere, a...

Xenos@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 13 Nov 2010 18:15:00 -0600

He probably copied the paragraph from some web page somewhere, and then in an
effort to make it look like it was his own work, moved the subject to the end.

I did that too, when I was at school.  Mind you, it was books then.  There was
a slightly smaller chance of getting caught in the first place.

(Peccavimus/27061) I think if I were to rewrite this, I'd say:

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:53:00 -0600

I think if I were to rewrite this, I'd say:
"The law must adapt to keep up with societal changes," but then it occurs to me
that even that is a bit wordy for the idea:
"The law must adapt to changes in society."  is a bit clearer.
I might go, myself, with:
"The law must change because society does."

(Steppenwolf/27060) Maybe that's it: the combination of poor craft and poor understa...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:39:00 -0600

Maybe that's it: the combination of poor craft and poor understanding of
evolution.  (I almost commented on the latter in my critique, but thought it
best not to.)

What's funny is that she's one of those people who isn't a particularly good
writer, but a superb editor of others' works. Her feedback is excellent; her
original stuff less so.

(Peccavimus/27059) The subject is so far away from the beginning of the sentence th...

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:36:00 -0600

The subject is so far away from the beginning of the sentence that it's two and
a half lines of confusion and frustration before we even know what he's talking
about.  It would be easy to fix: you'd have to move the first clause to the
end.

Of course, that doesn't address the apparent urge to sound smart at the cost of
saying something.  What the hell is an "ecological species?"  Are there lots of
species that aren't ecological?  And "survive" here as a transitive is an
unusual and marked usage that misleads the reader.  Moreover, this writer has
no idea how evolution works.

(Steppenwolf/27058) Introductory sentence to a classmate's paper. I can't quite put...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:30:00 -0600

Introductory sentence to a classmate's paper.  I can't quite put my finger on
what's so horribly wrong with it, but it just needs to be taken out and shot.

"Similar to the process of natural selection whereby certain ecological species
genetically adapt to environmental changes and survive those species that
remain stagnant, the law must also adapt to keep up with societal changes."

(Tom Brady/27057) OK, here's a country song I penned this morning... figured I'd g...

Tom Brady@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 04 Nov 2010 10:12:00 -0500

OK, here's a country song I penned this morning... figured I'd get some
feedback.

<verse 1>
Growin up
So long ago
Had a stand of pines
Where grass won't grow
And an old toy truck

Brothers, friends,
And neighbors came
To our little world
Just to stake a claim
To a patch of dirt

<chorus>
Somehow we managed
To get by
We solved disputes
Without much fight
We were more mature
Than we ever knew

There were common goals
We all worked for
Helped each other out
No keepin' score
Didn't seem so hard
In our back yard
In that old dirt pile

<verse 2>
Made some roads
And packed them down
Built farms and homes
Like a little town
But run by kids

Everybody
Played a part
We all took
Our work to heart
For the common good

<chorus>
Somehow we managed
To get by
We solved disputes
Without much fight
We were more mature
Than we ever knew

There were common goals
We all worked toward
Helped each other out
No keepin' score
Didn't seem so hard
In our back yard
In that old dirt pile

<verse 3>
Don't know when
It got so hard
To open up
Let down our guard
Find a compromise

Seems this world
Of grown up men
Doesn't have the sense
We had back then
To just get along

<chorus>
Somehow we managed
To get by
We solved disputes
Without much fight
We were more mature
Than we ever knew

There were common goals
We all worked toward
Helped each other out
No keepin' score
Didn't seem so hard
In our back yard
In that old dirt pile

(Trillian/27056) Article I thought some here might peruse:

Trillian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:28:00 -0500

Article I thought some here might peruse:
The Four Golden Rules of Being A Writer.

www.guidetoliteraryagents.com/blog/The+4+Golden+Rules+Of+Being+A+Writer.aspx

Short, to the point, but a good reminder to stay grounded.

(Xenos/27055) New short story:

Xenos@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 10:47:00 -0500

New short story:
http://darkstreetstories.blogspot.com/2010/10/umbrella-shop.html

With thanks to Shag for suggesting the idea, sorry it took so long to get
finished!  (Real life got in the way...)

(Jubilee/27054) I'm karalianne over on the NaNoWriMo web site. I moderate the Re...

Jubilee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 09:19:00 -0500

I'm karalianne over on the NaNoWriMo web site. I moderate the Reference Desk
(for your research needs) and I'm the Municipal Liaiason (ML) for Saskatoon (I
organize events and stuff). :)

(Albedo/27053) I'll likely be participating in NaNoWriMo. Some local friends ar...

Albedo@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 17 Oct 2010 02:16:00 -0500

I'll likely be participating in NaNoWriMo. Some local friends are planning on
collaborating, working in a shared setting. I'm hoping the social nature of our
efforts will help provide me with an extra bit of motivation to consistently
write. 1,600+ words a day for 30 days might end up being a bit much for me
since I only usually write 500-750 words an hour on average, but I'm hoping to
hit 15-20K words without sacrificing too much time away from my family in the
evenings after work.

(Trillian/27052) If it's legal writing, I'd go with Steppenwolf, since I like his...

Trillian@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:17:00 -0500

If it's legal writing, I'd go with Steppenwolf, since I like his previous work
and his qualifications as writer and lawyer.

On an ENTIRELY different note: Anyone gearing up for NANOWRIMO?
I have a goal to have my office ready by Nov1 to write and nothing else for a
month, if possible :)  My husband even got me a book about writing a novel in a
month as support. :)

And, now that I am reminded of my goal, I gotta get this office ready to roll.

(Peccavimus/27051) The sentence has another problem, actually. You generally want ...

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:40:00 -0500

The sentence has another problem, actually.  You generally want to keep the
subject as close to the verb as possible.  When you nominalize too much into
the subject, you sacrifice clarity.  In this sentence, there's several phrases
and a whole *clause* separating the subject from the verb.

Without the full context, I couldn't offer specific revision advice.  But it
might need to be broken up, if clarity is your goal.

(Lochner/27050) Solid!

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 11:58:00 -0500

Solid!

(Mean Mr Mustard/27049) exposes?

Mean Mr Mustard@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 11:57:00 -0500

exposes?

(Lochner/27048) Need rephrasing advice, this sentence bugs me:

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 12 Oct 2010 11:31:00 -0500


Need rephrasing advice, this sentence bugs me:

"Plaintiff's disingenuous attempt to convert Mr. Doe's testimony regarding the
location of these documents into 'evidence' that Defendant misled Plaintiff
betrays the flimsiness of Plaintiff's premise."

  It's the last part I'm concerned about, from "betrays" on ward.  I'm not sure
that betrays is the word I want.  "Reveals" or "makes apparent" is the meaning
I am going for, but I want a word that has a negative connotation, like
betrays.

  Any ideas?

(Tom Brady/27047) I believe the intended word was self-ingratiating, and it's tr...

Tom Brady@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:52:00 -0500

I believe the intended word was self-*in*gratiating, and it's true, that's not
the word I would use to convey the desired effect.

"supererogatory" would be more appropriate in this context, "going beyond the
requirements of duty".

(Salamano/27046) Facilitative.

Salamano@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:58:00 -0500

Facilitative.

(Peccavimus/27045) I don't know which word you want, but I am 200% sure that it's n...

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:48:00 -0500

I don't know which word you want, but I am 200% sure that it's not
self-agratiating.

(Steppenwolf/27044) For a persuasive brief? I vehemently disagree.

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:33:00 -0500

For a persuasive brief? I vehemently disagree.

I mean, maybe it's not necessary, but twisting the knife a little is often a
good idea.

(Clockworks/27043) Indeed. For a legal document, you definitely don't need a modifi...

Clockworks@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:27:00 -0500

Indeed. For a legal document, you definitely don't need a modifier where you
want to put one. Any modifier you put in there won't communicate what you want
to communicate, it will come accross as self-agratiating.

in fact, self-agratiating is probably the word that you are looking for. :)

(Giraffe/27042) voluntary?

Giraffe@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:44:00 -0500

voluntary?
complimentary?
thoughtful?
courteous?

Actually, just skipping the modifier entirely communicates your meaning. A
follow-up reminder is clear as is.

(Lochner/27041) Need a word that means something like, "gratuitous," as in, "som...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:39:00 -0500


Need a word that means something like, "gratuitous," as in, "something I did
voluntarily out of the goodness of my heart though I had no obligation to do
it."

Context:

  "On April 20th, Plaintiff served Defendant with Plaintiff's First
Consolidated Request for Production of Documents, and Defendant ignored both
the Request and Plaintiff's ___________ follow-up reminder that Defendant's
response was past due."

(Xenos/27040) Oh yes, the Wookiee opera! I figured that was just a joke... No...

Xenos@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 17:01:00 -0500

Oh yes, the Wookiee opera!  I figured that was just a joke... Not being a Star
Wars fan (although having a vague notion that Wookies are IN Star Wars) I
figured it wasn't really my thing.  Oh, that and historical stuff isn't really
my comfort zone, and neither is setting something in another (but real)
country.

Basically it was a suggestion that didn't really work for me ;-)

If you come up with something a teensy bit less specific...

(Lammam P Yrruf/27039) It hurts that my ideas are so soon forgotten.

Lammam P Yrruf@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:50:00 -0500

It hurts that my ideas are so soon forgotten.

(Xenos/27038) Er... what? :-)

Xenos@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:48:00 -0500

Er... what? :-)

(Lammam P Yrruf/27037) Could you at least set part of it in Formosa?

Lammam P Yrruf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 27 Aug 2010 20:21:00 -0500

Could you at least set part of it in Formosa?