Administrative Issues

(Turanga Leela/25750) In Serious> what gets axed is personal attacks. Stupid posts rem...

Turanga Leela@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:02:00 -0600

In Serious> what gets axed is personal attacks. Stupid posts remain, because
unfortunately stupidity is not against the rules.

(Smoke Eater/25749) Hell, Knightshade got deleted out of Macintosh for criticizing a...

Smoke Eater@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:18:00 -0600

Hell, Knightshade got deleted out of Macintosh for criticizing a piece of
HARDWARE....someone took offense at that and he got deleted....  so yeah, Danix
is right.

(Danix/25748) Heh, a lot of the PDA>, Macintosh>, Tech Pol>, Serious>, Politic...

Danix@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:16:00 -0600

Heh, a lot of the PDA>, Macintosh>, Tech Pol>, Serious>, Political Issues> and
even Inside Pol> threads would be always axed.

(Smoke Eater/25747) And let's not forget, I'm not complaining about being deleted an...

Smoke Eater@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:14:00 -0600

And let's not forget, I'm not complaining about being deleted and fully
admitted I had it coming.  If all she did was that and left it alone, and
disabled me, we wouldn't even need to be having this conversation.

(Lochner/25746) I agree. It looks like there was one (1) deleted post between t...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:08:00 -0600


I agree.  It looks like there was one (1) deleted post between the two FM
posts, and everything in-between was garden variety discussion.  There were 13
total posts over the course of a 24-hour period.

It sounds like one user posted one thing that was off-topic and directed at the
FM, and the entire thread was axed on grounds that nobody's mind was going to
be changed since the topic is abortion.  That strikes me as an overreaction,
and the conversation, other than SE's barb, does not appear to be of
particularly low quality.

Although I'll generally side with the FM's use of discretion I think that
thread could have been left to stand.  Mariah's "true" for shutting it down
are, to me, somewhat irrelevant.  Is it off-topic?  Is it disruptive?  I'd say,
"No" in both cases.

If we were to shut down every discussion where minds are unlikely to be
changed, we could just axe half the BBS now.

(Smoke Eater/25745) And the ONE post that got deleted was this one:

Smoke Eater@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:06:00 -0600

And the ONE post that got deleted was this one:
Feb 19, 2012 20:28 from Smoke Eater
Wait!  We haven't heard what Mariah's HUSBAND thinks about the subject!  You
all know she's got a husband, right?
[Children And Family Issues> msg #91444 (0 remaining)] Read cmd ->

Note, that I did not and am not complaining about her deleting my post.  The
snark was intentional and I had it coming.  She had the snark coming, however,
because it is clear, from the beginning of the thread, that because she's
getting refuted in her points she's frustrated with the discussion.

(Sparky/25744) The forum lies dead for days, sometimes weeks, on end! I was ac...

Sparky@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:03:00 -0600

The forum lies dead for days, sometimes weeks, on end!  I was actually a little
excited to see it getting up and going again, on something not carseats and
consumerism.  How to keep being the best parents you can be without the
meddling judgments of doctors with their religious bias trumping the life of a
potentially dying patient, did not seem so off-topic if you consider it from
the familial angle.  Everyone has something to say on the matter, and given the
nature of the thread I was impressed that it was flowing at a good pace,
staying very civilized.

(Knightshade/25743) Feb 19, 2012 23:30 from Mariah

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:06:00 -0600




Feb 19, 2012 23:30 from Mariah
.... Didn't delete any posts.




Feb 20, 2012 12:48 from Mariah
....  plus I did have to delete some posts




Which is it?

(Danix/25742) You sure they were a lot? I only detect one deleted post before ...

Danix@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 08:03:00 -0600

You sure they were a lot? I only detect one deleted post before your first FM
post and the one declaring the discussion off-topic between  #91443 and
#91445.

That said, I do agree that flaming and insults aren't something to be
tolerated. The irony is that the now off-topic article provoked a similar
reaction to the author, down to having to move twice because of stalkers and
death threats. But surely, it wasn't really that bad to slam the thread as
off-topic?

(Smoke Eater/25741) No, people weren't getting insultory...I posted one sarcasti...

Smoke Eater@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:59:00 -0600

No, *people* weren't getting insultory...*I* posted one sarcastic post and
didn't complain about it when you deleted me...I had it coming, but so did you.
Even if I hadn't posted what I did, you'd have shut down the discussion just
because people were disagreeing with you and refuting your posts.

(Mariah/25740) Rian- I did NOT stop it because people were disagreeing with me....

Mariah@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:48:00 -0600

Rian- I did NOT stop it because people were disagreeing with me. In fact, I
previously stated (as evidenced by my FIRST FM POST that I knew that it could
start going bad. I let it go a couple of days, but really, the discussion was
going no where and WOULD go no where, plus I did have to delete some posts that
were insulting that you probably missed. I should not have to be abused on a
BBS for my opinion, in a public forum, private messaages or x messages. I'm
still trying to decide if I need to disable some people but I'm hoping the
ignoring tactic will work.

If I really truly wanted to squash the topic, I'd never have let it happen. Or
I'd have deleted every post in that thread. I've let plenty of threads stand
that disagreed with my opinion, so you can't really use that as why I did it.

(Rian/25739) Mariah, I wasn't "running to tattletale" as you put it. It was ...

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:45:00 -0600

Mariah, I wasn't "running to tattletale" as you put it.  It was a legitimate
question.  I think simply declaring something "off topic" and killing a
discussion is more likely to have even more people lose interest in a dying
BBS, as you put it, than an actual discussion.  What was really happening, it
seemed, was you used the "hand of power" to stop a discussion because everyone
was disagreeing with you, which I personally see as detrimental.  It's also not
the first time you've done it.
That said, you're not the only FM that's done it, either... and I daresay
people will recall I've called out those occurences as well.  This is a BBS;
it's about discussion.  Killing a thread for no good reason, for no reason at
all other than losing, isn't the answer.

And you're right.  People do need to stop insulting others, in Mail and
X-messages alike, as well as in forum posts.  And people do need to get a life
outside of ISCABBS, too.  I'll be the first (if I may) to decry the insults you
may be getting in Mail>.  That said... I'll also simply say that this paragraph
applies to all of us.

(Mariah/25738) Seriously, running to tattle tale though? The same few people we...

Mariah@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 07:36:00 -0600

Seriously, running to tattle tale though? The same few people were arguing a
subject that they weren't going to win, no point in keeping it going just so
MORE people lose interest in a dying BBS. Now, I'm getting insulting Mail>
message to boot. Some people really need to get lives outside of ISCA...

(KAM/25737) I think that, overall, our FMs do a great job of moderating disc...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 02:29:00 -0600


I think that, overall, our FMs do a great job of moderating discussion, and I
can't think of any forum where the FM is a real hard-ass. Nearly all of them
take a position that some topic drift is okay as long as it isn't scrolling
active, on-topic posts out of the forum.

(Chaos And Void/25736) It wasn't particularly insulting or immature. It was just that p...

Chaos And Void@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 18:40:00 -0600

It wasn't particularly insulting or immature. It was just that people disagreed
with you.

(Mariah/25735) Rian- the same 4 people were posting back and forth beating a de...

Mariah@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 18:30:00 -0600

Rian- the same 4 people were posting back and forth beating a dead horse, plus
people were getting insultory, plus posting off topical posts just for kicks.
It's not really something that has been topical in that forum in the past
nearly 20 years I've been on this BBS (since fall of 92), but because there
isn't a lot of conversation, I let it continue until people started getting
immature.  Didn't delete any posts. Didn't put in a last jab and THEN declare
it off topic. If you wish to continue the conversation, perhaps it's more
topical elsewhere because it wasn't really relating it to children and family
when debating the merits of the medical or moral side of it. I'm sure there are
plenty of other places on this BBS that would make it more topical in the
context in which it was being posted.  I also highly suspect, since the link to
the article was posted in the forum NINE MONTHS after the original post was
made on the web, that someone was bored and wanting to stir something up....

(Lochner/25734) As an FM, when I get involved in a discussion that is veering of...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 17:51:00 -0600


As an FM, when I get involved in a discussion that is veering off-topic, I
generally try to give my primary antagonist the last word and then declare it
off-topic.  I used to give that person a heads-up that their next post would be
the last in the room and then I was moving it, so make it count, but the last
few times I did that, it blew up in my face as some kind of "threat" so I quit
doing that.

As far as a general rule ... my personal view is that if moderation is our
strength, we should moderate, but I also think the BBS lacks the technological
capacity to easily move threads.  Ideally, the FM could tag a bunch of posts
and move them to another room and, if that FM agreed, they'd magically re-
appear in that other room as if originally posted there, and when each
participating user logged on, they'd be informed that the thread moved and
prompted with the option to <k>now the room it moved to if they didn't already.

It would make moving threads a hell of a lot easier -- right now, moving a
thread as FM is usually the kiss of death. but if you move it as a user, it
often works.

I read Child> but haven't followed the abortion thread closely at all, so I
dunno on that particular example.  I'd say let it go unless it's drowning out
other stuff, but that's speaking as somebody who is usually guilty of drowning
out worthier discussion. :)

(Rian/25733) Here's an odd but (hopefully) intersting question. Given the de...

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 19 Feb 2012 17:42:00 -0600

Here's an odd but (hopefully) intersting question.  Given the declining
userbase, etc etc, should we really be in the business/ habit of simply
declaring an otherwise topical thread "off topic" because the nature of the
debate is a bit pointed?  When overall, the thread is continuing with a lot of
making and refuting points?  It seems in the particular instance I'm thinking
of, the declaring off topic is being done by the person whose points are being
refuted, so it seems more of a defensive maneuver than anything else...
I'm referring, specifically, to Child and Family>.  But it's happened
elsewhere (albeit not recently in rooms I read), so I'm wondering to the
broader idea as well.

(KAM/25731) I'm sure there were other things but that was apparently the the...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 17:47:00 -0500


I'm sure there were other things but that was apparently the the last word that
did 'em in.

(Smoke Eater/25730) Seriously? Over one comment?

Smoke Eater@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 16:57:00 -0500

Seriously?  Over one comment?

(KAM/25729) It is, but now the name stick around for nostalgic reasons. We t...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:11:00 -0500


It is, but now the name stick around for nostalgic reasons. We took a straw
poll and very few wanted it changed to Pro Wrestling> or Pro Wrestling & MMA>.

I'm not sure there's much whoop to make about the MMA discussion. It's not
brought up except by me and a few others, and in fact we had one person leave
the entire BBS recently because somebody else made a snide comment that they
didn't like reading the MMA discussion. So *shrugs*

(Ace High/25728) the forum info for 189> seems hugely, hugely out of date. it's n...

Ace High@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 13 Jul 2011 14:01:00 -0500

the forum info for 189> seems hugely, hugely out of date. it's not even the
right name for the forum.

it also doesn't tell people that it's OK to talk to MMA there.

(Devil Lady/25727) It has been at least 6 months to a year since we've had an appli...

Devil Lady@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 04:14:00 -0500

It has been at least 6 months to a year since we've had an application.  The
official guide test has really fallen by the wayside - for the last
application, I just asked a few quick questions off the top of my head.

(Mariah/25726) I thought everyone was a guide. I don't even know how long I've ...

Mariah@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 30 May 2011 12:05:00 -0500

I thought everyone was a guide. I don't even know how long I've had the status
but I don't turn it on any more.

(Danix/25725) I flunked my last Guide test. That was about 5 years ago. :P

Danix@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 26 May 2011 07:57:00 -0500

I flunked my last Guide test. That was about 5 years ago. :P

(Lightning/25724) We haven't had any applications within the last three months. N...

Lightning@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 25 May 2011 19:32:00 -0500

We haven't had any applications within the last three months.  Not sure when
the last Guide flag was bestowed.

(Lxndr/25723) As you can see, I asked this in Policy.

Lxndr@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 25 May 2011 10:32:00 -0500



As you can see, I asked this in Policy.
I'm now bringing it over here, where it's an at least apparently more
topical subject.


May 24, 2011 10:12 from Lxndr


Hopefully this is at least a semi-topical place to put this.

There are those of us (like me, mostly old-timers) who still have Guide flags -
we had to apply for it, and be approved for it.

When was the last Guide application recieved? And was it approved?

I'm both wondering:

(a) When the last application happened AND
(b) When the last Guide flag was bestowed

[Future Of ISCA BBS> msg #19127 (1 remaining)] Read cmd ->

Does anyone know?

(Ace High/25722) quite a lot of ink being spilled needlessly over this, it seems.

Ace High@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 15:56:00 -0500

quite a lot of ink being spilled needlessly over this, it seems.

(Turanga Leela/25721) Apr 9, 2011 03:12 from Volvo Guy

Turanga Leela@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 08:41:00 -0500

Apr 9, 2011 03:12 from Volvo Guy
Glad you know whats in my mind, copper.  I answered a question someone asked.
take it up with them, not me.
[Administrative Issues> msg #25718 (2 remaining)] Read cmd ->


You are responsible for YOUR posts.
CL is responsible for HIS posts.
I am responsible for MY posts.
And so on.

It really is that simple. I cannot post a disruptive post aimed at you where
it is not appropriate.  There are forums on here where such things are
appropriate but they are not appropriate here or any of the forums you have
been bringing up this crap in an unproductive manner.

If you have a problem with a post which you think is attacking you, take it
up with the FM. Don't post a response in kind. If you MUST respond, stick
to the issue rather than discussing your ponderings as to whether or not
his wife is so fat she causes 9.0 earthquakes, or his mama wears army boots.
It simply is not topical and will inevitably get you kicked out of a forum,
regardless as to whether or not an FM decides to let the flame /bait/ alone.

As an FM I tend to leave borderline posts alone - a light hand is better than
heavy-handed moderation of a forum. But, it is obvious here that some forums
do need to be more strictly moderated - the ISCA forums specifically, and it
is being discussed. That does not make the deletion of your posts any less
valid, and it does not make personal attacks or tired old unproductive shit
any more topical in this forum.

Again: each user is responsible for his or her own posts, regardless of what
others may post. Three-year-old objections likef "But HE did it first!" does
not justify actions and will likely be ignored completely.

(Turanga Leela/25720) You were not called a prick; you were described as having been b...

Turanga Leela@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 08:35:00 -0500

You were not called a prick; you were described as having been behaving like a
prick. Small nuance maybe, but let us be intellectually honest here. You were
behaving in a juvenile manner and were encouraged to:

1) move the dialog to where it is appropriate
2) engage constructively
3) volunteer/contribute in some manner
4) discontinue the discussion where it is not appropriate

(Copper Lethe/25719) If you would like to have a private dialogue, feel free to Mail>...

Copper Lethe@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 09 Apr 2011 06:15:00 -0500


If you would like to have a private dialogue, feel free to Mail> the user you
would like to engage in discussion.  If you post in a public forum, expect
anyone to chime in.

It's not difficult to know what is in your mind, in this case.  Despite being
pointed toward ISCA Communication> numerous time, you have posted in there
exactly once.  Ever.  If you had ever made an effort to offer ideas and
criticism in the forum designed for it, there might be reason to believe that
your stated motivation is genuine.  As it stands now, there isn't, particularly
when you told me, essentially, that if you don't get to post about it in Future
(where it is off-topic), you don't participate at all.  It's pretty easy to
guess your motivation.

(Volvo Guy/25718) Glad you know whats in my mind, copper. I answered a question s...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 08 Apr 2011 23:12:00 -0500

Glad you know whats in my mind, copper.  I answered a question someone asked.
take it up with them, not me.

To repeat your oft-asked question: what are you looking to accomplish with that
post?  Your ankle biting is doing nothing to accomplish a resolution here.
Lammam and I were carrying on dialog as it relates to the administrator of
Future>  and whether or not the post should have been deleted.  You jumped in
with a completely irrelevant post.  who's out of line here?   Hint: its not me,
and it's not Lammam.  You doing the EXACT thing you are accusing me of is not
accomplishing anything other than making you look like a hypocrite.

(Copper Lethe/25716) You didn't post because you felt some sort of action needed to b...

Copper Lethe@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:30:00 -0500


You didn't post because you felt some sort of action needed to be taken.

You posted because you wanted to stir up shit.  You were told a number of times
where to take it, and you refused.  I personally told you that your input, and
your harsh criticism, is perfectly welcome, but you need to post it in the
right forum.  And you refused.  You wanted to post off-topic, and you wanted to
stir up shit.

And now you're doing it again.  Tiberius and ISCA are not on topic here.  Why
can't you post in the right forum?  Hit <j>, type in "ISCA," and hit enter.
That's all you need to do.

(Lammam P Yrruf/25715) If I am correct to read that as boiling down to a request that w...

Lammam P Yrruf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:10:00 -0500

If I am correct to read that as boiling down to a request that we review the
role of programmer wrt the organizational structure, with a mind to
accountability, openness of communication, and timeliness of action, I assure
you this request is noted with attention.  To the degree that it boils down to
an assessment of one individual's relationship with our organization however, I
cannot say anything freely for reasons which should be understandable to anyone
who has worked with others in any capacity.

(Volvo Guy/25714) Respect is earned, not given. If i get disrespected (and I coul...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 08 Apr 2011 20:00:00 -0500

Respect is earned, not given.  If i get disrespected (and I could call being
called a "prick" as being disrespected) then I am certainly not going to give
any back.  I never claimed that i was attempting to be nice...that being said,
I was stating my opinion on matters.  If you go back through and read the whole
thread, i believe i said more than once that i REALLY appreciated the work
being done....oh, wait, that was one of the posts he deleted.  I guess perhaps
me saying nice things would have weakened his position.

Last I checked, ISCA wasn't a poipularity contest.  While that may have
changed, I was not made aware of it.  I didnt post what I posted to make
friends.  I posted what I posted because SOME sort of action needs to be taken
to move things forward.  The volunteers have done plenty, but it seems that we
have one person in particular (tiberius) who is evidently  unwilling to give up
what he views as HIS kool-aid, and the BBS has been waiting MUCH longer than
necessary for him to do anything.

(Lammam P Yrruf/25713) My pennies:

Lammam P Yrruf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 08 Apr 2011 19:46:00 -0500

My pennies:

Volvo Guy, don't mistake this for respect - you have /none/ of my respect,
given the incessant disregard for my humanity as a volunteer and fellow user of
this system while you rail on me and those working with me for months without a
shred of the patience I'd expect of my teenage son.

That said, I wouldn't have deleted that post.  Standing on its own, it was no
more disruptive nor personal than much of the conversation.  It does stand as
an example of how little content was present in the conversation, which derives
largely from your inability to engage in actual content if it sways from yoru
three-bullet-point autorepeat 'criticisms' and ignorance of any statement that
does not amount to "yes, great overlord, we have done as you command and the
system looks exactly like the organization you would have devoted your godly
skill to developing without our time and input".

The deletion is understandable as the reaction of someone who is /tired/ of the
contentless autorepeat.  But it added no less content to the whirlpool dialogue
than anyone else who had wasted their time attempting to decode what answer
would get you to actually converse rather than hit your macro key again.

You shouldn't have been deleted.  But you should have grown up and engaged in
dialogue, or moved on to greener pastures if you really thought us such
cabbage-brained clods to need your single uncomplicated complaint repeated
without nuance yet another time.

I'm all for rescinding the deletion and the kickout that came with it, but I
pray to any god whose listening that you notice your approach has not been one
to garner a spirit of respect and cooperation, and perhaps take ownership of
some part of that discourse.

(Ace High/25712) mmm.

Ace High@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:23:00 -0500

mmm.

i'd say TL's views reflect her thoughts, but not necessarily those of
the org as a whole.

i for one believe in relatively evenhanded, consistent moderation of
ISCA-controlled forums. no playing favorites, in other words.

that said, i also believe that if you're going to post in such forums
with the intent of talking shit and wasting people's time, you're going
to get exactly what you deserve; that's pretty much what we saw in this
situation.

(Turanga Leela/25709) Apr 6, 2011 15:01 from KAM

Turanga Leela@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:17:00 -0500

Apr 6, 2011 15:01 from KAM

He's the president of ISCA. He's not the president of the review board.

[Administrative Issues> msg #25698 (10 remaining)] Read cmd ->

Well, he is a PB member, and the review board and the PB are one and the same
now.

(Turanga Leela/25708) Volvo Guy>

Turanga Leela@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 18:05:00 -0500

Volvo Guy>

There is a clear difference between you and other users involved in the thread.

In your case, you were venemous, belligerent, and tiring, not to mention
uncooperative. You made exactly ZERO positive contributions and had absolutely
nothing constructive to add to the discussion.

Everyone else involved, including even Knightshade (who is considered a troll
by many, due to his tone) made positive contributions, and were addressing the
point rather than going out of their way to insult you, and when they did, it
was largely directed at your attitude rather than you as a person.   Your
behavior was pretty douchy in there, and after having been asked repeatedly to
take it to the proper forum (ISCA Communications) you continued ad nauseum.

Does this make others' responses and continuation of the off-topic discussion
right? Not really - but looking at it as an ISCA member I do think it was
valuable for us (ISCA collectively - NPO, programmer, and ISCA members at
large) to address the points within context while trying to nudge you to the
appropriate venue, and at the same time prodding you to be more productive.

Now, as far as bias is concerned: are the ISCA-specific rooms biased, and is
leniency given to those who contribute productively? You betcha. As they are
related to the ISCA organization, it is well within our rights to do as we wish
in the ISCA-specific forums.

Now, this brings up a point: who owns this BBS? Legally it is the ISCA
corporate entity but the reality is that each and every ISCA member in good
current standing is part owner of the BBS (albeit indirectly) and as such
people who are not ISCA members are merely guests here, and may be shown the
door any time ISCA so desires, and if it comes to that, ISCA can and has had to
in the past use legal measures to enforce such bans. Am I suggesting that you
be banned? Not at all. I am merely stating that it is well within our right as
an organization to decide to do so, and we can do so for any reason we wish,
being a private organization. Having said that, the reason that isn't done,
even with your attitude as bad as it is, is because we welcome input from
anyone and everyone, but it has to be in an appropriate place, and it's
preferred that the feedback not be combative, but more constructive, and better
yet, even cooperative.

Otherwise, what is your goal? Is it to just stir up shit? If that is your goal
then I'd just as soon you let your account time out. Is your goal really to
help the BBS progress and move forward with the times? If that is the goal,
then take the feedback you have received to heart and change your attitude, and
figure out how you can pitch in to make those changes for the better happen.

That is all.

(AndyB/25707) And just to add: Sysops can only instigate a review of an FM's ...

AndyB@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:32:00 -0500

And just to add:  Sysops can only instigate a review of an FM's overall
behaviour in fora they control.  DrMemory's behaviour in Future> is not within
their jurisdiction.

It is in ISCA's jurisdiction, but unless we find that DrMemory was particularly
negligent in his running of Future> on this occasion, we're hardly likely to
proceed to a full review.

You may gather that as part of the NPO, I have a vote.  I do, and will exercise
it, but am keeping out of the debate as I have said my piece in public.

(Copper Lethe/25706) "Rian: yeah, i dont see me getting fair treatment there either."

Copper Lethe@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:09:00 -0500



"Rian: yeah, i dont see me getting fair treatment there either."

Do you think that YOUR posts should not have been deleted?

(Copper Lethe/25705) "Which leaves a 3-3 tie as a possibility, however unlikely a one...

Copper Lethe@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:09:00 -0500



"Which leaves a 3-3 tie as a possibility, however unlikely a one."

The review is done by ISCA, not by the board, so there will be more than 6
people involved.

"And no, we are NOT done, i asked a specific question that was not answered
yet.
 that being "how do i ask for an FM review of the FM's actions?""

That was already answered.  You got your answer, and you submitted a request
for that review.

"If he is allowed to review a complaint made specifically about him, that's a
pretty big conflict of interest, and certainly not fair to the user asking for
the review."

He isn't reviewing a complaint about him.
The review is of a specific administrative action.  In this case, your
deletions and KO.
A user cannot request an overall review of an FM, though.  That needs to be
done by the Sysops.

"Thats fine, congrats, you found an example.  however, it does not pertain in
ANY way to what happened in Future.  I posted ONCE, and it was in response to
someone asking a question of me.  Apples to oranges, man."

As far as I can tell, you were not deleted soley for simply repeating what
someone else said (though that, in and of itself, is disruptive and
unnecessary).

"My current question: what can be done about the conflict of interest of the
president of ISCA being one of the people who conducts reviews that question
his actions?"

I imagine that he would recuse himself.  If you'd like to get into that
discussion, take it to Policy>.

But it's almost unnecessary, because I'm fairly sure that no ISCA member is
going to side with you, just as no users who have commented on this thread are
siding with you.

"He's the president of ISCA. He's not the president of the review board."

There is no review board in this case.  Future> is a forum for ISCA, so the
reviews are conducted by ISCA.

(Dr Doctor/25704) There's no need for Lochner to get with me on anything. If DrMe...

Dr Doctor@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:06:00 -0500


There's no need for Lochner to get with me on anything.  If DrMemory isn't part
of the review, I'm cool with that.

(Dr Doctor/25703) In short, ISCA BBS is the "lawn" of the ISCA organization, and "...

Dr Doctor@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:04:00 -0500


In short, ISCA BBS is the "lawn" of the ISCA organization, and "ISCA" has just
asked you to keep off that section of their lawn.  You ask "what can be done ..
blah blah blah?"  The answer is nothing.  You're going to have to cope, as I've
already said previously.

(Volvo Guy/25702) Rian: yeah, i dont see me getting fair treatment there either. ...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:04:00 -0500

Rian: yeah, i dont see me getting fair treatment there either.  I'll bow out
and leave it, since I'll never get a fair shake anyway.

(Lochner/25701) Well, I'm on ISCA and we're reviewing it now and Dr Memory is no...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:03:00 -0500


Well, I'm on ISCA and we're reviewing it now and Dr Memory is not.

So I can speak from personal observation that ISCA is reviewing your post, and
Dr Memory is not participating in any way.

Is there anything else we can help you with?

(Rian/25700) And incidentally, as Lochner already mentioned, that's a policy ...

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:03:00 -0500

And incidentally, as Lochner already mentioned, that's a policy issue.  As
such, it's topical in Policy>, not here.  You might try there.

By the way, the FM over there... is Tanj.  Play nice :)

(Volvo Guy/25699) Lochner: you should probably get with DrDoctor on that, since wh...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:02:00 -0500

Lochner: you should probably get with DrDoctor on that, since what he said was
pretty much the exact opposite of what you said.

(KAM/25698) He's the president of ISCA. He's not the president of the review...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:01:00 -0500


He's the president of ISCA. He's not the president of the review board.

Other than that, ISCA is not a democracy. It's a small oligarchy ran by a small
handfull of people who are elected by the membership who have paid to be a part
of the group.

(Lochner/25697) No, I do not. He does not participate in the review. What is t...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:01:00 -0500



No, I do not.  He does not participate in the review.  What is the conflict?

(Volvo Guy/25696) and he is the president of isca. you HONESTLY dont see a confli...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:00:00 -0500

and he is the president of isca.  you HONESTLY dont see a conflict of interest
there?

(Lochner/25695) He doesn't review it. ISCA does. That's a policy question and ...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:59:00 -0500


He doesn't review it.  ISCA does.  That's a policy question and it's off topic
here, and that's not why you came here originally.

That question has been answered.  Is there anything else we can help you with?

(Volvo Guy/25694) Lochner: you're not reading my posts, or you have trouble with e...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:57:00 -0500

Lochner: you're not reading my posts, or you have trouble with english.  I've
spelled it out in pretty simple terms.

My current question: what can be done about the conflict of interest of the
president of ISCA being one of the people who conducts reviews that question
his actions?

As for my other question: it's been yelled for request of a review, and
everything else I have posted has been in response to you name calling and
others asking for clarification.

(Lochner/25693) What is it that you wish to accomplish with this discussion?

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:54:00 -0500

What is it that you wish to accomplish with this discussion?

(Rian/25692) "Thats fine, congrats, you found an example. however, it does n...

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:54:00 -0500


"Thats fine, congrats, you found an example.  however, it does not pertain in
ANY way to what happened in Future.  I posted ONCE, and it was in response to
someone asking a question of me.  Apples to oranges, man."


I posted once.
I bet you're miffed.
Disruptive?  *nods*  You bet, and I expect to be deleted.

NOW are we done?  You've got all your answers...

(Volvo Guy/25691) Thats fine, congrats, you found an example. however, it does no...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:53:00 -0500

Thats fine, congrats, you found an example.  however, it does not pertain in
ANY way to what happened in Future.  I posted ONCE, and it was in response to
someone asking a question of me.  Apples to oranges, man.

(Lochner/25690) "Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post someth...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:52:00 -0500


"Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post something, and it's
deemed not disruptive, and you quote their post, it makes VERY little sense
that the repost could be disruptive and sniping at someone."

  Do you see yet how simply reposting another person's post can be disruptive?

(Lochner/25689) "Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post someth...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:52:00 -0500


"Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post something, and it's
deemed not disruptive, and you quote their post, it makes VERY little sense
that the repost could be disruptive and sniping at someone."

(Lochner/25688) "Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post someth...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:52:00 -0500


"Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post something, and it's
deemed not disruptive, and you quote their post, it makes VERY little sense
that the repost could be disruptive and sniping at someone."

(Volvo Guy/25686) Very true. I certainly wouldnt expect it of him though, Knights...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:49:00 -0500

Very true.  I certainly wouldnt expect it of him though, Knightshade.  After
all, he hasnt exactly been a beacon of fairness up to this point.

This does bring me to what I feel is a good question though...

If he is allowed to review a complaint made specifically about him, that's a
pretty big conflict of interest, and certainly not fair to the user asking for
the review.  Even beyond my current situation, that's certainly not what I
would call a "fair" process for anyone in the same situation.

Does anyone have any ideas on how that could be avoided?

(Rian/25685) The same way you request any other review. You Yell>.

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:50:00 -0500

The same way you request any other review.  You Yell>.

Now we're done? :)

(Volvo Guy/25684) Rian: im not sure what your point is there. My point was that t...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:45:00 -0500

Rian: im not sure what your point is there.  My point was that theres no WAY i
get a fair review when the ones doing the review are headed up by the person
who KO'ed me in the first place.

As for knowing what has been deleted and what has not: before i got ko'ed, i
was perfectly capable of scrolling back through the forum and seeing what was
deleted and what was not.

I suppose if i wanted to, i could go look at rss feeds to see whats been posted
since, but I dont really need to.

And no, we are NOT done, i asked a specific question that was not answered yet.
 that being "how do i ask for an FM review of the FM's actions?"

(Knightshade/25683) I would hope DrMemory would recuse himself from voting on a revi...

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:46:00 -0500

I would hope DrMemory would recuse himself from voting on a review of himself.

Which leaves a 3-3 tie as a possibility, however unlikely a one.

(Knightshade/25682) Interesting point- I don't think there's actually anything in wr...

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:44:00 -0500

Interesting point- I don't think there's actually anything in written policy
that prevents a KOed user from reading a forum via guest.

and there's surely nothing stopping him from reading the RSS feed on the web of
said forum.


If there should be or not I guess belongs in 84>

(Dr Doctor/25681) ISCA Board:

Dr Doctor@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:42:00 -0500


ISCA Board:
DrMemory, President and Treasurer
Lamman P Yrruf, Vice-President
Turanga Leela, Secretary
Diarmid
Tanj
Thobby
Copper Lethe

Based on comments I've seen in this forum and others, I'm going to guess that
of the board members reviewing your appeal, the following are unlikley to find
in your favor: DrMemory, Turanga Leela, Tanj, Copper Lethe.  Even assuming
Lamman P Yrruf, Diarmid, and Thobby can be convinced to find in your favor,
they are in the minority and your appeal will be denied 4 to 3.

Do you feel there is value in continuing this discussion?

(Rian/25680) Hm. Now that we've mentioned the KKK, let me throw in Hitler.

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:41:00 -0500

Hm.  Now that we've mentioned the KKK, let me throw in Hitler.
There.  Now we can invoke Godwin's Law and shut up about it.  You got "the
response you were looking for" (which I can only interpret as "heard what you
wanted to") 35 posts ago from Knightshade.  And since you're KO-ed from the
forum, how do you know what was or wasn't left in place, who's still posting,
etc?
Or are you admitting to circumventing a KO by using a mult or the Guest login
or something?  because that's likely to lengthen your KO...

So are we done?

(Volvo Guy/25679) Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post somethi...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:37:00 -0500

Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post something, and it's
deemed not disruptive, and you quote their post, it makes VERY little sense
that the repost could be disruptive and sniping at someone.

if people are not going to be dealt with in the same manner, then that's up to
isca, but that certainly isnt encouraging input from the userbase as a whole.

And with ISCA doing the review, im certain that I wont get a fair shake.  thats
like letting the KKK try a black man.

(Copper Lethe/25678) "I certainly feel that if i warranted deletions and a KO then th...

Copper Lethe@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:36:00 -0500


"I certainly feel that if i warranted deletions and a KO then there were plenty
of other people who did is well.  I want to know why I got it and they did
not."

You don't get to know that. That's an issue between the FM and the other users.

As a user, you do not get access to the sanction history of others users.

What happens to Tanj has no bearing on your own situation.  Worry about you.
You posted off-topic and were disruptive, there is no denying that.  So you
were sanctioned.

I'll say this much, though - Future> is ISCA's forum, and Tanj is a member of
ISCA, as well as a member of the board.  In a very sense, Future> exists for
Tanj (as well as people who are interested in enhancements and coding
assistance).  You are not a member of ISCA, nor have you ever offered
enhancement requests or coding assistance.  FM's do have some leeway, and in a
forum like Future>, the FM is far more likely to give leeway to someone who
offers positive contribution over someone who does not.  Your constant
criticism is almost always off-topic, since you consistantly attack ISCA,
something that is made very clearly off-topic by the FI.

In short, you were KO'd because you deserved it.  Other people were not KO'd,
because they did not deserve it.  You're not going to get any more information
than that, because another users disciplinary record is none of your business.

(Lochner/25677) I have attempted to further the discussion. Specifically:

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:03:00 -0500



 I have attempted to further the discussion.  Specifically:

  (1) I explained how your post could be deleted when similar posts by other
users were not

  (2) I explained why the type of review you requested won't resolve your issue

  (3) I have tried to understand what you want to get from this discussion,
other than more attention-seeking

 The name-calling was a cherry on top to make the hassle of explaining the
obvious to an idiot worth the 90 seconds it takes me to write these posts.

(Volvo Guy/25676) No, but you'll continue to snipe and flame me, with NO attempt a...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:02:00 -0500

No, but you'll continue to snipe and flame me, with NO attempt at furthering
the discussion.

Knightshade: perhaps you are correct on this.  How do I go about asking for
that type of review?

(Lochner/25675) "forgive me for saying so, but you lashing out at me because you...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:01:00 -0500


"forgive me for saying so, but you lashing out at me because you find
me annoying is the EXACT same thing you seem to be accusing me of. "

  Sounds like I should be deleted, them.
  Only I won't bitch about it and demand a review.

(Knightshade/25674) A review of your deletion and KO will be upheld, because as I al...

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 10:00:00 -0500

A review of your deletion and KO will be upheld, because as I already pointed
out, your posts were completely off topic.


Your real issue seems to be that OTHER people were ALSO off topic and the FM
didn't similarly sanction them, but that would not be addressed by a review of
YOUR deletion/KO.


You'd need the OTHER type of review which is more of a general FM review.  I'm
not sure that sort of review is done for ISCA-moderated forums though.

(Volvo Guy/25673) Dr Doctor: that has no place here though. We all know this. I'...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:58:00 -0500

Dr Doctor: that has no place here though.  We all know this.  I'm looking for a
specific resolution as to WHY i was deleted and others were not.

Lochner: forgive me for saying so, but you lashing out at me because you find
me annoying is the EXACT same thing you seem to be accusing me of.  And since
you think im such a prick, I guess you're putting yourself in the same
category?  At least my posts here have a specific purpose to get resolution on
a specific issue.  Thats what this forum is for.  Not for you to lash out and
belittle me so you can feel better about yourself.  if you have nothing to
contribute to the discussion other than name calling, YOU are the problem, not
me.

(Lochner/25672) There is no next level. It's before ISCA now, and that's as far...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:57:00 -0500


There is no next level.  It's before ISCA now, and that's as far as it goes.

(Volvo Guy/25671) Dr Doctor: sorry,m i hit enter without answering your question. ...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:56:00 -0500

Dr Doctor: sorry,m i hit enter without answering your question.  if they find
against me, first, I'd honestly wonder why, because to me it seems pretty clear
cut that I was deleted for posting things similar to others who were not.  I
guess at that point I would ask for the review to be taken to the next level.

(Dr Doctor/25670) I think calling a spade a spade likely provides a sense of catha...

Dr Doctor@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:57:00 -0500


I think calling a spade a spade likely provides a sense of cathartic release.

(Lochner/25669) Volvo> I am satisfying a psychological need to lash out at you ...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:57:00 -0500


Volvo>  I am satisfying a psychological need to lash out at you because you're
annoying.

(Lochner/25668) Reviewing your deletion will also not give you the satisfaction ...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:55:00 -0500


Reviewing your deletion will also not give you the satisfaction you seek.  It's
entirely possible that DrMemory's deletion of your post was reasonable.  That's
not really your complaint -- your complaint is that DrMemory should have also
deleted other posts.

You won't get that answered by:
 (a) playing this attention-seeking game in here; or,
 (b) having your deletion reviewed

This is little more than a juvenile whine because you weren't allowed to steal
the room's attention any more in Future, so you're doing in here.  It's
immature and transparent.

Grow up.

(Volvo Guy/25667) I already did yell. I think I already stated that a few posts b...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:55:00 -0500

I already did yell.  I think I already stated that a few posts back.

Lochner: what do you feel like you are accomplishing by calling me a prick?

(Dr Doctor/25666) So, Volvo Guy, what are you going to do if it's decided, "DrMemo...

Dr Doctor@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:51:00 -0500


So, Volvo Guy, what are you going to do if it's decided, "DrMemory used
appropriate discretion in the administration of the forum for which he is
responsible.  The Policy Board declines to intervene."?

Clarity has already been provided.  If you are seeking relief from harm you
feel you've been caused, then Yell>.

(Lochner/25665) If you want a "real resolution" you need to appeal.

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:52:00 -0500


If you want a "real resolution" you need to appeal.

Why are you discussing it in this forum?

(Volvo Guy/25664) FI here:

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:46:00 -0500

FI here:


As a poster in this forum, you agree to follow the following code of
conduct. Failure to do so may result in immediate removal from the forum.

1.   Post on topic (see above).
2.   Post with the desire to solve the issue under discussion.
3.   Post without flames, sniping, or any other type of comment that leads
     away from solving the issue at hand.
4.   Post within the time guidelines (see above) regarding current issues.

And Lochner: you calling me a prick certainly isnt part of a solution here.
Seems to me that your post pretty much goes opposite of #3 here.

The resolution I am seeking is that DrMemory be made to enforce the FI of his
forum fairly - holding everyone to the same standard.

I'm looking for a real resolution.  You're looking to score points off me.

(Lochner/25663) I told you. The FM believed your post was disruptive, but Tanj'...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:43:00 -0500


I told you.  The FM believed your post was disruptive, but Tanj's wasn't.
Reasonable minds can disagree, it's a subjective judgment call by the FM in the
end, and you can reasonably anticipate that DrMemory will defend his judgment
call.

You were singled out because you're a real prick, basically, and almost
everybody else in there is either not a prick, only half a prick.

So I ask again, what is it you seek here?

(Volvo Guy/25662) Im seeking a little bit more clarity on why one person can post ...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:41:00 -0500

Im seeking a little bit more clarity on why one person can post something and
it's fine, and why someone else can quote it, and have it be off topic.

I certainly feel that if i warranted deletions and a KO then there were plenty
of other people who did is well.  I want to know why I got it and they did not.

if you go into future: you'll probably see that 145 of the last 150 posts there
dont follow the FI.  Why was I singled out?

(Lochner/25661) My opinion is irrelevant. The FM decided it wasn't disruptive b...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:36:00 -0500


My opinion is irrelevant.  The FM decided it wasn't disruptive but yours was.
I probably would have left the entire thing be and posted an FM-headered post
telling everybody to move along.

What vindication are you seeking here?

(Volvo Guy/25660) Lochner: tell me how that post tanj made is not disrputive. ple...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:32:00 -0500

Lochner: tell me how that post tanj made is not disrputive.  please.

(Copper Lethe/25659) There's something else to remember here, too.

Copper Lethe@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:24:00 -0500



There's something else to remember here, too.
Future> is not like Babble>, or Television>, or most other forums.  It's more
like Admin> or ISCA Communication>.  It's a forum that is ISCA's (the
organization, not the BBS), and is run and moderated by ISCA.  It's not like
Babble> where you make a couple of infractions, and you get progressive
warnings.

I was there during that situation.  You had members of ISCA, in a forum created
for the use of ISCA, telling you that you were off-topic and disruptive.  What,
exactly, did you expect to happen when you didn't stop?

(Lochner/25658) The bottom line is that deletions are context-sensitive in the m...

Lochner@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:22:00 -0500


The bottom line is that deletions are context-sensitive in the modern era of
BBS moderation.  User A and User B could post the exact same thing in the exact
same room, but depending on the context, one might be disruptive and one might
not.

Posts are not deleted merely for being off-topic any more.  Generally speaking,
we only delete and sanction when something is disruptive.

Tanj is not disruptive.  You are.

You basically ran afoul of the BBS-wide "don't be an ass" policy, and Tanj did
not.

If you are psychologically incapable of processing this injustice, I suggest
that you leave the BBS and never return to this wretched hive of scum and
villainy.

(Get Organized/25657) Offering cookie and telling volunteers not to read your posts wo...

Get Organized@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:18:00 -0500

Offering cookie and telling volunteers not to read your posts won't get them to
continue or fix anything either as I read in these posts:

Apr 4, 2011 22:20 from Volvo Guy
Do you want a cookie, dude?   I've offered numerous suggestions here as to what
could be done to improve this place.

You can cite all these things that you have done....good for you.  what have
they accomplished to improve and revive this place?  Are there more users
because of it?   is the code change moving forward?   Has tiberius given access
to root?

yeah, nice try.
[Future Of ISCA BBS> msg #19003

Apr 5, 2011 04:52 from Volvo Guy
Tanj: no, the inability of ISCA to get together and make a decision is whats
holding things back.  Thanks for the support though.

Sorry that you dont like me pointing out obvious deficiencies here.   If you
dont like what I have to say, I certainly invite you to not read my posts.
barring that, if you dont like what I'm pointing out, get on ISCA to fix them.
[Future Of ISCA BBS> msg #19008

(AndyB/25656) And, in addition, you do not know, nor is it any of your or my b...

AndyB@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:16:00 -0500

And, in addition, you do not know, nor is it any of your or my business, what
has been said by DrMemory to any other user about their posts.

(AndyB/25655) It will in the end come down to one thing: you are responsible ...

AndyB@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:15:00 -0500

It will in the end come down to one thing:  you are responsible for your own
behaviour.  Not totally unlike speeding, where you get done for 40 in a 30, and
someone had passed you five minutes earlier at 60, but more like if you're on
someone else's property, don't piss on the furniture (or the other people
present)

(Volvo Guy/25654) True, I cant expect them to be any more impartial than the FM. ...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:13:00 -0500

True, I cant expect them to be any more impartial than the FM.  There's
definitely a conflict of interest in the review process.

(AndyB/25653) not that I would expect too much sympathy from the PB or the NPO...

AndyB@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:12:00 -0500

not that I would expect too much sympathy from the PB or the NPO at large...

(Volvo Guy/25652) AndyB thank you....i did that last night. If i was off topic ...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:11:00 -0500

AndyB   thank you....i did that last night.  If i was off topic and should have
been deleted, then thats fine, I respect that.  However, if im getting deleted
and kicked out, then a lot of other folks should have been as well.

Seems to me that the FM is picking and choosing who can say what there and that
the FMing of that forum is a lot less than fair and unbiased.  Thats my main
issue.

(AndyB/25651) Ultimately, though, the question is what do you want to do about...

AndyB@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:09:00 -0500

Ultimately, though, the question is what do you want to do about it.  If you
consider yourself mistreated, you would have to <y>ell and ask the Sysops to
pass your appeal to the Policy Board - while ISCA, Inc, applies the same
policies to Future> as any other forum, the Sysops have no jurisdiction as they
don't control the forum.

(Volvo Guy/25650) So essentially since he didnt like what I had to say, i got sing...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:09:00 -0500

So essentially since he didnt like what I had to say, i got singled out,
deleted, and K.O.'ed.

Thank you knightshade - thats the explanation I was looking for.

(Volvo Guy/25649) Dr Doctor: again, PLEASE tell me how one person can say somethin...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:08:00 -0500

Dr Doctor: again, PLEASE tell me how one person can say something and it's
allowed to stay, but another gets deleted for QUOTING that post.

Id venture to say that someone sniping at me could qualify as "being a jerk" as
well.

(Knightshade/25648) I don't disagree that OTHER posts could certainly also be consid...

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:08:00 -0500

I don't disagree that OTHER posts could certainly also be considered off topic
there, I was just answering your question about why YOUR posts were.

(Dr Doctor/25647) The explanation is, "you're being a jerk and administrative disc...

Dr Doctor@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:07:00 -0500


The explanation is, "you're being a jerk and administrative discretion was used
to remove you from the forum."  While that explanation may be unsatisfying to
you personally, again, you're going to have to cope with those feelings.

(Volvo Guy/25646) Knightshade: fair enough, but the post Tanj made that i quoted c...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:06:00 -0500

Knightshade: fair enough, but the post Tanj made that i quoted certainly wasnt
on topic per the fi either, yet it stayed.  Also, if you go to that forum, 90%
of the discussion there falls in line with the post that got deleted.

(Knightshade/25645) The FI of 49 suggests your posts weren't, at all, on topic.

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:05:00 -0500

The FI of 49 suggests your posts weren't, at all, on topic.



This forum is for discussion of:

Feature requests and offers for coding help on the new ISCA BBS software.

This forum is not for:

1. Discussion of ISCA, including its choice to use specific software
2. Discussion of individual sanctions (ISCABBS Forum>), current policy
   (IscaBBS Policy>), or ISCA as a group (Iowa Student Computer Association>).







Your posts did not contain feature requests nor offers for coding help.  The
contained the stuff specificly listed as what the forum is NOT for.

(Volvo Guy/25644) I wasnt bossing anyone around there. i was quoting another user...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:05:00 -0500

I wasnt bossing anyone around there.  i was quoting another user's post.

(Volvo Guy/25643) In other words, you cant offer me an explanation for it? Got it...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:05:00 -0500

In other words, you cant offer me an explanation for it?  Got it.  At this
point, I'm looking for someone who CAN.

(Get Organized/25642) Bossing around the volunteers calls for a KO. If it keeps up, ge...

Get Organized@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:04:00 -0500

Bossing around the volunteers calls for a KO. If it keeps up, get a TWIT.

(Dr Doctor/25641) Then that's a disconnect you're going to have to cope with.

Dr Doctor@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:04:00 -0500


Then that's a disconnect you're going to have to cope with.

(Volvo Guy/25640) Wow, thats constructive. Still not seeing where my post that go...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:03:00 -0500

Wow, thats constructive.  Still not seeing where my post that got me K.O.'ed
was ANYTHING but topical there and in line with the discussion in the forum.

(Dr Doctor/25639) Yes, some people are more equal than others. They're actually m...

Dr Doctor@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:02:00 -0500


Yes, some people are more equal than others.  They're actually moving and
shaking and you're just being a turd.  So you're the one that gets to seek your
ISCA experience in other forums.

Darn.

(Volvo Guy/25638) So essentially, some people are more equal than others? I misse...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:01:00 -0500

So essentially, some people are more equal than others?  I missed that in the
FI.  sorry.

(Guardian Angel/25637) What you're missing is that Tanj is one of the three 'blessed' p...

Guardian Angel@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 08:59:00 -0500

What you're missing is that Tanj is one of the three 'blessed' programmers.
Tiberius has authority for the current production system. The Linux port
testing and migration is under CL, Tanj, and Myself.

So guess what? We get to be snarky when we feel we're being unnecessarily
harassed.

(Volvo Guy/25636) Deleted this:

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 08:58:00 -0500

Deleted this:

Apr 5, 2011 12:32 from Volvo Guy
Besides, we all know that it's ME thats holding everything up.  At least
according to Tanj...
[Future Of ISCA BBS> msg #19028 (17 remaining)] Read cmd ->

If you hadn't followed that up with a semi-constructive post, I'd have booted
you.  You did, though, so I'll give you one more warning:  No sniping in that
forum.

Thanks,
Kevin

I guess when Tanj says it, its not sniping?

(Knightshade/25635) what reason did the FM give for the KO in his mail> to you?

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 08:57:00 -0500

what reason did the FM give for the KO in his mail> to you?

(Volvo Guy/25634) The post Tanj made: this was alloowed to stay.

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 08:53:00 -0500

The post Tanj made: this was alloowed to stay.

Apr 4, 2011 23:28 from Tanj
Volvo Guy, you do more to impede the progress of the BBS more than anyone
else right now.  People in general are signifcantly less likely to
volunteer their time at the nagging behest of kneebiters who feel that
their kneebiting is really going to inspire people.  It has the
exact opposite effect.
[Future Of ISCA BBS> msg #19007 (38 remaining)] Read cmd -> Stop

My post: this was deleted and I was warned:

Apr 5, 2011 12:32 from Volvo Guy
Besides, we all know that it's ME thats holding everything up.  At least
according to Tanj...
[Future Of ISCA BBS> msg #19028 (17 remaining)] Read cmd ->

(Volvo Guy/25633) So can anyone tel lme why DrMemory can delete a post like this f...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 08:50:00 -0500

So can anyone tel lme why DrMemory can delete a post like this from future>
then kick me out of the forum?

 Apr 5, 2011 20:38 from Volvo Guy
Fuxy: please point out to me how I am being counterproductive for pointing out
obvious flaws in this master plan.  Thanks!  And for the record, you haven't
contributed anything new here either.

Again, if you're offended that I "ankle bite" as you call it for calling out
things that would be obvious problems to a two year old, by all means, jump on
that bandwagon.  The fact remains though, that until everyone who HAS to be
involved actually GETS involved (like folks who cant be bothered to reply to
emails and are the sole trusted programmer) then all the discussion of how to
move things forward is essentially just talk.

That's essentially my problem.  Am I doing anything on the actual programming
to help? no, im not a programmer, so all I would do is detract there anyway.
However, I'm perfectly capable of pointing out that there's a lot of finger
pointing and scapegoating.

I salute the people who volunteer their time to get things done here...however,
it's not accomplishing anything if you have to go through 20 layers of
bureaucracy to accomplish anything.  That, as it stands, is the primary
problem.  If you think me NOT being here pointing that out would make it go
away, you're delusional.
[Future Of ISCA BBS> msg #19050 (10 remaining)] Read cmd ->


I'm finding it REALLY hard to see how a legitimate question that is directly
related to the discussion going on there gets me a KO.  He also deleted another
post that I quoted tanj in.  According to DrMemory, when tanj said it, it was
okay, but when i repeated it, it was not.  how, exactly, is it okay for tanj to
say something and its on topic but its suddenly off topic and deletable when i
say it?

(KAM/25632) I believe that Kirk helped the group get incorporated after it s...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 16:01:00 -0600


I believe that Kirk helped the group get incorporated after it split from the U

(Smoke Eater/25631) is ISCA the non profit organization incorporated? It might be t...

Smoke Eater@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 20 Jan 2011 12:38:00 -0600

is ISCA the non profit organization incorporated?  It might be time to  look
into that if that is not the case.

(WORF/25630) The bank is going to require the SSN of anyone who is ever add...

WORF@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 18:04:00 -0600


The bank is going to require the SSN of *anyone* who is ever added as a signer
in most cases. Mostly because they want to ensure you are who you say you are.

If it is a SBA account, then you should be able to just bring in the board
resolution and get the new signer/s added and get yourself removed as a signer
on the account.

Closing an account and opening a new one at the same bank can actually raise a
red flag. ;)

(Honeybunny/25629) it was opened as a small business account non-profit organizatio...

Honeybunny@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:46:00 -0600

it was opened as a small business account non-profit organization.  I used our
tax ID number, but they also required my ssn and when heavily questioned (since
thats why I got the tax number) they said it still stays with the account no
matter what you do.

(WORF/25628) Rian> Typically, in a corporate environment, the President alway...

WORF@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 13:32:00 -0600


Rian> Typically, in a corporate environment, the President always has signing
authority in addition to the Treasurer. This is usually done in case of checks
that require two signatures. Your bylaws should state if this is a case (ie any
checks over $1,000 require two signers).

(Rian/25627) Cool then. :) I wondered if that had occured to anyone was all....

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 13:29:00 -0600

Cool then. :)  I wondered if that had occured to anyone was all.  Not surprised
it did, but I could see it simply being overlooked, too.

(Diarmid/25626) Apparently not, we discussed that issue (I asked the same) and h...

Diarmid@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 13:25:00 -0600

Apparently not, we discussed that issue (I asked the same) and he posted the
relavent part of the by-laws that specifically states it is actually allowed.

(Rian/25625) An odd question, just because it jumps out at me from Dr Memory'...

Rian@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 13:23:00 -0600

An odd question, just because it jumps out at me from Dr Memory's last:
Is there anything, legally speaking, that will prevent the President from also
being the Treasurer? IANAL or anywhere close to, but that just triggered a flag
in my mind...

(WORF/25624) DrMemory>

WORF@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:53:00 -0600


DrMemory>

Two points:

1) Your post from 2009 about an "ongoing meeting" is likely not correct. I'm
speaking from a CA perspective here, not an IA one, but to keep corporate
standing, you do need to have a dstinct annual meeting, record any action in
minutes and have those minutes filed.

2) You do NOT need to open a new bank account when you change signers. Assuming
the *original* account was opened as a corporate account (you would have needed
to have the non-profit incorporation docs on hand, the federal tax ID, a board
resolution listing the authorized signers (assuming they were not listed on the
incorporation docs) and ID/SSN of authorized signers for verification) then the
only action you need to take is to have a board resolution listing the change
in signers along with the ID/SSN of the new signer.

The new signer then goes into the bank with an *original* copy of the board
resolution, presents that an ID to the banker. Those whose signing authority is
being removed are deleted. Those who are being added have their ID verified and
they sign new signature cards. Done deal.



Now, if you originally opened the account as a *personal* account rather than a
*corporate* account, yeah, you can't transfer that. But if that's the case,
then you really should make sure that you open the new account as a *corporate*
account in order to avoid future hassle like this. That's the proper way to do
it.

(DrMemory/25623) The Board and officers are listed in the private I S C A forum. ...

DrMemory@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 10:12:00 -0600

The Board and officers are listed in the private I S C A forum.  I didn't
realize they weren't available anywhere else.

Copper Lethe
DrMemory, President
Diarmid
Lamman P Yrruf, Vice-President
Tanj
Thobby
Turanga Leela, Secretary

Honeybunny is still acting as Treasurer right now, and we're currently
voting on a new one (me).  Since 9-11, organization bank accounts have to be
tied to a person, so we can't just transfer the account -- we'll have to
open a new one.
I hope to have that and a PayPal account within a week or so.

(KAM/25622) Unless he's not one anymore.

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:55:00 -0600


Unless he's not one anymore.

(Get Organized/25621) I'm surprised Gansen doesn't know who the PB members are when he...

Get Organized@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 09:51:00 -0600

I'm surprised Gansen doesn't know who the PB members are when he's one.

Jan 5, 2009 16:49 from DrMemory
We think, but we're not sure, that having all ISCA members in the I S C A forum
constitutes an ongoing meeting, and that that meets our requirement for an
annual meeting.

At present, the Board members are DrMemory (Pres), Lammam P Yrruf (V-Pres),
Turanga Leela (Secretary),  Honeybunny (Treasurer), Ace High, Tanj,  and
Lunenburg.

[ISCA Communications> msg #15548

(Knightshade/25620) Sysops are Lightning, Lunenburg, Adonis, Devil Lady, and Bleedin...

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 07:28:00 -0600

Sysops are Lightning, Lunenburg, Adonis, Devil Lady, and Bleeding Me.


The programmer is effectively still Tiberius since everytime you ask the 3 new
ones they say they're waiting on something from him to do anything.

Can't help ya on the PB members.

(Ace High/25619) strictly curiosity, but who are the current sysops, programmers,...

Ace High@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 07:02:00 -0600

strictly curiosity, but who are the current sysops, programmers, and PB
members?

(Lammam P Yrruf/25618) If that weren't hypothetical, I'd ask for just a teense more inf...

Lammam P Yrruf@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 19 Jan 2011 06:15:00 -0600

If that weren't hypothetical, I'd ask for just a teense more info and make us a
motion!

(Lunenburg/25615 Sysop) This issue has been answered. If you don't like an FM decision,...

Lunenburg@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 21:57:00 -0600

This issue has been answered.  If you don't like an FM decision, Yell for
another look at it.  Further arguing about it is no longer useful.

(The Brahma Bull/25614) not really, it was probably more of a Policy issue, i was just m...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:40:00 -0600

not really, it was probably more of a Policy issue, i was just misinformed on
where to present it and then the "fun" started lol, but you missed all of it,
its all over now. I would say maybe next time, but hopefully there will be no
more next time lol.

(Copper Lethe/25613) Is there an actual administrative issue here?

Copper Lethe@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 18:22:00 -0600


Is there an actual administrative issue here?

(The Brahma Bull/25612) Mama K>Yes now that you mention it i do remember you trying to d...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:34:00 -0600

Mama K>Yes now that you mention it i do remember you trying to defuse that
situation, with your NBA and NHL references...Point well taken....and again i'm
sorry for irritating you to the point you yelled at me...I wasn't doing it on
purpose. I'm sorry.

(Mama K/25611) TBB, think back, if you will, to the original thread in the foru...

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:33:00 -0600

TBB, think back, if you will, to the original thread in the forum you're
referring to.  Do you remember a user trying to diffuse the conversation?
Trying to subtly calm people down?  Then trying not-so-subtly to completely
change the subject to give people time to calm down so the name-calling could
stop?  Do you remember that?

You said, " Even a nice person can get a
little annoyed/angry with people treating them unfairly"....so can nice people
who keep trying and trying and trying and trying and trying and trying to help.

(The Brahma Bull/25610) VG>Yes i can understand why you would think that i'm not nice be...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:28:00 -0600

VG>Yes i can understand why you would think that i'm not nice because of a
profile like that, but you're looking at it wrong. Even a nice person can get a
little annoyed/angry with people treating them unfairly, but you're right,
thats probably not something i should have said, and i'm sorry.

(The Brahma Bull/25609) Volvo Guy>Dude don't you get it, I AM cooled off...i have no iss...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:22:00 -0600

Volvo Guy>Dude don't you get it, I AM cooled off...i have no issues with YOU or
HER or anyone else. The only thing i've been trying to do is make you
understand where i'm coming from. I'm honestly sorry that any of you, YOU, HER,
Rian or anyone else took anything i say or have said to be anything other than
what i meant it to be. As i said, i hate hate hate conflict or hostility. All i
want is for everyone to get along, be civil towards each other and act like
respectable adults. Attacking each other is the exact opposite of that.

I'm gonna use this oppurtunity to apologize to you, and her for any wrong doing
on my part, any confusion or anything that i may have done to lead to this..I
will take my blame for my part in anything, but i ask that you and her and
anyone else consider that i'm honestly not as bad as you think i am, and I will
return that same courtesy towards you. Life is too short for us to be doing
this it really is....so from the bottom of my heart, I am truly truly sorry.

(Volvo Guy/25608) And sftd, but when you have a profile like this:

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:22:00 -0600

And sftd, but when you have a profile like this:

So because i can't get along with people that act like immature douchebag
 assholes, that makes ME a bad person. WOW and you wonder why i think you're an
 idiot. It's because YOU ARE. I get along just fine with people who arent
 mentally retarded and self absorbed, that just doesn't describe YOU :)


I have a hard time believing the part about you being nice.  Sorry, but you're
judged on actions, and thats not something someone claiming to be nice says.

(Volvo Guy/25607) If people are getting pissed off at you, its for posts like that...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:20:00 -0600

If people are getting pissed off at you, its for posts like that.  she HAD been
nice to you, but you kept pushing things and not letting things go.  let it
drop and take some time to cool off before you continue this discussion,
please?

(The Brahma Bull/25606) Is that what you call helping people? See where i come from Help...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:12:00 -0600

Is that what you call helping people? See where i come from Helping people
implies that you be nice to them and try and help not yell at them constantly
and belittle them. That's not helping, thats called acting like a, well you
know....

You don't know me, you don't know anything about me so please stop pretending
like you do. If you did know me you'd know i am one of the nicest people you'd
ever meet but when you and others like you treat me the way you do, i'm gonna
get defensive, but you know what, i'd still be there for you if you needed
someone to have your back because thats the kind of person i am.

Excuse me if i get defensive or upset when people tell me i'm a bigot or yell
at me for no reason. If you're unable to have a conversation without getting
hostile and yelling at people and calling them names then that's not MY issue,
thats YOUR issue or whoever elses issue, but it's not mine. I am fully
capabable of having a discussion without calling people names or belittling
them or yelling at them. But i sincerly appreciate you judging me like you know
me or anything about me. Thanks.

(Mama K/25605) I have been trying to HELP YOU. Apparently you're not getting t...

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:10:00 -0600

I have been trying to HELP YOU.  Apparently you're not getting that either.
So, back to the issue at hand.  Let me try to put this in easy words for you.

If your issue is resolved, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

(The Brahma Bull/25604) Mama K>Why are you still ranting about this? IT'S BEEN RESOLVED,...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:08:00 -0600

Mama K>Why are you still ranting about this? IT'S BEEN RESOLVED, I HAVE NO
ISSUE WITH IT ANYMORE. Were you not the one that bitch at me to stop and even
went so far as to block me from xing or messaging you because i wouldn't let it
go, and now YOU keep bring it up?  Do you not see that this is the exact kind
of behavior that i'm referring to? I've been trying to let it go and be civil
with everyone and everybody but yet you keep acting the way you are?

(Mama K/25603) You didn't know that? Ok, so you didn't read the forum nfo b...

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:07:00 -0600

You didn't know that? Ok, so you didn't read the forum <i>nfo before posting
in a new forum. Alrighty then. It's too bad nobody suggested to you that you
need to talk to the Sysops to get resolution on this issue.....

From message 25558:
"If someone did something thats so bad that you feel it needs to be removed
immediately, copy the post and Yell it to the sysops."

From message 25560:
"if you feel that an FM was unfair, you have recourse. ask for their actions
to
be reviewed. You DO have that option."

From message 25564:
"If you have KO that expires and the FM hasn't been around for a few days, you
can always ask a Sysop to step in."

From message 25566:
"That being said, you have options here,
which I already outlined. Have you appealed the decision to the policy board
yet?.....Again, this is something you can ask for a review on, and I suggest
you at
least do that (if you already have not) before you escalate things here,
because if you're not making the effort to get your issue resolved by the
standards set forth here, why are you expecting anyone else to handle them for
you?"

From message 25568:
"If someone did something thats so bad that you feel it needs to be removed
immediately, copy the post and Yell it to the sysops."

From message 25574:
"If you have a complaint about an FM that you would like to actually, I don't
know, be resolved in some way, Yell and involve the Sysops.
If you think the FM is biased against you, Yell and involve the Sysops.
If you think the FM needs to take action against other users, Yell and involve
the Sysops.
If you think the FM needs to log in more frequently, Yell and involve the
Sysops.
If you think the FM punished you unfairly, Yell and involve the Sysops."

From message 25575:
"If someone is unhappy with a decision made by an FM then they need to take it
upon themselves to follow the specified course of action for resolution. In
this case, either ask the sysop to allow them back in based on the length of
ban vs how long they have served or ride it out. If they feel the decision was
unfair, then yell for review. Pretty simple."

(Volvo Guy/25602) You can still appeal that to the review board. The ops will loo...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:06:00 -0600

You can still appeal that to the review board. The ops will look at the
incident if you specify the problem.

(The Brahma Bull/25601) VG>and i've already stated that i've gotten the answers to the q...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:02:00 -0600

VG>and i've already stated that i've gotten the answers to the question i had,
so there isn't any need to discuss it further. I never once said i didnt
deserve to be kicked out...What i said was that how is it right that i get
kicked out for what i got kicked out for and not the other person...It just
seems a little unfair to kick someone out for ASKING why someone is acting a
certain way but not to kick someone else out for calling people names and
insulting them when it leads nothing to the topic of conversation, but
regardless, as i said, i got my answer that i was looking for a long time ago
:) I even thanked you and KAM for it

(Volvo Guy/25600) TBB> and the WAY you go about that is to ask for a review of you...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:00:00 -0600

TBB> and the WAY you go about that is to ask for a review of your deletion.
That's the proper procedure for getting things resolved.

if you feel that you are right, waive confiedntiality and post specifics about
what happened in this incident. Otherwise there really isn't much else to
discuss.

(The Brahma Bull/25599) VG>Yes and i admit that mistake, but i'm serious dude. I don't d...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 17:00:00 -0600

VG>Yes and i admit that mistake, but i'm serious dude. I don't do shit to start
trouble, that's not me, AT ALL...i hate conflict and i hate hostility, but
sometimes when i get confronted, this is how i get. If you can honestly tell me
that you would react well to being told that your opinion wreaks of shit
because you can't prove it(There are alot nicer ways to say you don't agree
with someone) or that you would react well to being called a bigot, then more
power to you, but i didn't deserve either of those things and neither does
anyone else.

(The Brahma Bull/25598) VG>I've already stated that the resolution i was seeking is for ...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:57:00 -0600

VG>I've already stated that the resolution i was seeking is for this particular
FM to stop acting in a biased manner and start FMing more consistently. Maybe
he really isn't being biased, but he just comes off that way to me because
he'll kick me or someone else out for doing something, but then when someone
else does the exact same thing he doesn't kick them out or even issue
warnings...All im asking is that its consistent. Either repremand everyone the
same way, or don't repremand anyone at all.

(Volvo Guy/25597) It's the responsibility of the user to read FI before posting so...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:58:00 -0600

It's the responsibility of the user to read FI before posting somewhere. But
seriously, if you feel you were wronged, I'd encourage you to yell for a review
of the FM's actions.

Thats realistically the only way you are going to see this issue resolved...and
I'm assuming that, since you made it public in the first place, that's what you
are looking for.

(The Brahma Bull/25596) Mama K>Well i didnt know that. All i was doing initially was wha...

The Brahma Bull@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:56:00 -0600

Mama K>Well i didnt know that. All i was doing initially was what i was told to
do when i asked the Question from whoever it was that answered it. I had no
intention whatsoever of starting all this crap and i wish it would just stop
already.

(Volvo Guy/25595) So again: what resolution were you seeking? And PLEASE remembe...

Volvo Guy@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:54:00 -0600

So again: what resolution were you seeking? And PLEASE remember that I never
said a word about whether or not it was a justified KO since i dont even know
where it happened.

And the thing about not knowing you? yeah, keep in mind that goes both ways.

(Mama K/25594) From the forum nfo:

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 15 Jan 2011 16:54:00 -0600

From the forum <i>nfo:
"If official resolution of an action is your goal, you must request it from
the sysops or Review Board via <Y>ells. Admin Issues> can be used to
discuss an issue before or after an official review is done, but
resolution of issues will not occur in this forum."

Administrative Issues

(Turanga Leela/25750) In Serious> what gets axed is personal attacks. Stupid posts rem...

(Smoke Eater/25749) Hell, Knightshade got deleted out of Macintosh for criticizing a...

(Danix/25748) Heh, a lot of the PDA>, Macintosh>, Tech Pol>, Serious>, Politic...

(Smoke Eater/25747) And let's not forget, I'm not complaining about being deleted an...

(Lochner/25746) I agree. It looks like there was one (1) deleted post between t...

(Smoke Eater/25745) And the ONE post that got deleted was this one:

(Sparky/25744) The forum lies dead for days, sometimes weeks, on end! I was ac...

(Knightshade/25743) Feb 19, 2012 23:30 from Mariah

(Danix/25742) You sure they were a lot? I only detect one deleted post before ...

(Smoke Eater/25741) No, *people* weren't getting insultory...*I* posted one sarcasti...

(Mariah/25740) Rian- I did NOT stop it because people were disagreeing with me....

(Rian/25739) Mariah, I wasn't "running to tattletale" as you put it. It was ...

(Mariah/25738) Seriously, running to tattle tale though? The same few people we...

(KAM/25737) I think that, overall, our FMs do a great job of moderating disc...

(Chaos And Void/25736) It wasn't particularly insulting or immature. It was just that p...

(Mariah/25735) Rian- the same 4 people were posting back and forth beating a de...

(Lochner/25734) As an FM, when I get involved in a discussion that is veering of...

(Rian/25733) Here's an odd but (hopefully) intersting question. Given the de...

(KAM/25731) I'm sure there were other things but that was apparently the the...

(Smoke Eater/25730) Seriously? Over one comment?

(KAM/25729) It is, but now the name stick around for nostalgic reasons. We t...

(Ace High/25728) the forum info for 189> seems hugely, hugely out of date. it's n...

(Devil Lady/25727) It has been at least 6 months to a year since we've had an appli...

(Mariah/25726) I thought everyone was a guide. I don't even know how long I've ...

(Danix/25725) I flunked my last Guide test. That was about 5 years ago. :P

(Lightning/25724) We haven't had any applications within the last three months. N...

(Lxndr/25723) As you can see, I asked this in Policy.

(Ace High/25722) quite a lot of ink being spilled needlessly over this, it seems.

(Turanga Leela/25721) Apr 9, 2011 03:12 from Volvo Guy

(Turanga Leela/25720) You were not called a prick; you were described as having been b...

(Copper Lethe/25719) If you would like to have a private dialogue, feel free to Mail>...

(Volvo Guy/25718) Glad you know whats in my mind, copper. I answered a question s...

(Copper Lethe/25716) You didn't post because you felt some sort of action needed to b...

(Lammam P Yrruf/25715) If I am correct to read that as boiling down to a request that w...

(Volvo Guy/25714) Respect is earned, not given. If i get disrespected (and I coul...

(Lammam P Yrruf/25713) My pennies:

(Ace High/25712) mmm.

(Turanga Leela/25709) Apr 6, 2011 15:01 from KAM

(Turanga Leela/25708) Volvo Guy>

(AndyB/25707) And just to add: Sysops can only instigate a review of an FM's ...

(Copper Lethe/25706) "Rian: yeah, i dont see me getting fair treatment there either."

(Copper Lethe/25705) "Which leaves a 3-3 tie as a possibility, however unlikely a one...

(Dr Doctor/25704) There's no need for Lochner to get with me on anything. If DrMe...

(Dr Doctor/25703) In short, ISCA BBS is the "lawn" of the ISCA organization, and "...

(Volvo Guy/25702) Rian: yeah, i dont see me getting fair treatment there either. ...

(Lochner/25701) Well, I'm on ISCA and we're reviewing it now and Dr Memory is no...

(Rian/25700) And incidentally, as Lochner already mentioned, that's a policy ...

(Volvo Guy/25699) Lochner: you should probably get with DrDoctor on that, since wh...

(KAM/25698) He's the president of ISCA. He's not the president of the review...

(Lochner/25697) No, I do not. He does not participate in the review. What is t...

(Volvo Guy/25696) and he is the president of isca. you HONESTLY dont see a confli...

(Lochner/25695) He doesn't review it. ISCA does. That's a policy question and ...

(Volvo Guy/25694) Lochner: you're not reading my posts, or you have trouble with e...

(Lochner/25693) What is it that you wish to accomplish with this discussion?

(Rian/25692) "Thats fine, congrats, you found an example. however, it does n...

(Volvo Guy/25691) Thats fine, congrats, you found an example. however, it does no...

(Lochner/25690) "Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post someth...

(Lochner/25689) "Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post someth...

(Lochner/25688) "Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post someth...

(Volvo Guy/25686) Very true. I certainly wouldnt expect it of him though, Knights...

(Rian/25685) The same way you request any other review. You Yell>.

(Volvo Guy/25684) Rian: im not sure what your point is there. My point was that t...

(Knightshade/25683) I would hope DrMemory would recuse himself from voting on a revi...

(Knightshade/25682) Interesting point- I don't think there's actually anything in wr...

(Dr Doctor/25681) ISCA Board:

(Rian/25680) Hm. Now that we've mentioned the KKK, let me throw in Hitler.

(Volvo Guy/25679) Copper> no argument there, but when you see someone post somethi...

(Copper Lethe/25678) "I certainly feel that if i warranted deletions and a KO then th...

(Lochner/25677) I have attempted to further the discussion. Specifically:

(Volvo Guy/25676) No, but you'll continue to snipe and flame me, with NO attempt a...

(Lochner/25675) "forgive me for saying so, but you lashing out at me because you...

(Knightshade/25674) A review of your deletion and KO will be upheld, because as I al...

(Volvo Guy/25673) Dr Doctor: that has no place here though. We all know this. I'...

(Lochner/25672) There is no next level. It's before ISCA now, and that's as far...

(Volvo Guy/25671) Dr Doctor: sorry,m i hit enter without answering your question. ...

(Dr Doctor/25670) I think calling a spade a spade likely provides a sense of catha...

(Lochner/25669) Volvo> I am satisfying a psychological need to lash out at you ...

(Lochner/25668) Reviewing your deletion will also not give you the satisfaction ...

(Volvo Guy/25667) I already did yell. I think I already stated that a few posts b...

(Smoke Eater/25741) No, people weren't getting insultory...I posted one sarcasti...

(WORF/25630) The bank is going to require the SSN of anyone who is ever add...

(Lunenburg/25615 Sysop) This issue has been answered. If you don't like an FM decision,...