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(Banshee/77964) If you read the first and last lines of your traceroute output, ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 03:32:00 -0600


If you read the first and last lines of your traceroute output, you'll realize
it didn't finish at all.

(Gespalder/77963) Did a Traceroute and it FINALLY finished

Gespalder@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 03:19:00 -0600

Did a Traceroute and it FINALLY finished

traceroute to oldcomputers.net (206.130.103.19), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  dslrouter.westell.com (10.0.0.1)  1.986 ms  0.811 ms  0.685 ms
 2  mo-184-6-56-1.dhcp.embarqhsd.net (184.6.56.1)  37.575 ms  37.970 ms  37.823
ms
 3  mo-69-34-117-65.dhcp.embarqhsd.net (69.34.117.65)  38.952 ms  38.268 ms 
50.063 ms
 4  208-110-240-186.centurylink.net (208.110.240.186)  38.731 ms  37.362 ms 
37.536 ms
 5  bb-kscbmonr-jx9-01-ae0.core.centurytel.net (206.51.69.5)  40.120 ms  40.360
ms  37.993 ms
 6  bb-dllstx37-jx9-02-xe-11-1-0.core.centurytel.net (206.51.69.25)  53.186 ms
51.874 ms  52.548 ms
 7  dal-edge-18.inet.qwest.net (72.165.208.157)  51.696 ms  52.370 ms  58.766
ms
 8  dap-brdr-04.inet.qwest.net (67.14.2.162)  92.849 ms  51.973 ms  97.042 ms
 9  63.146.26.170 (63.146.26.170)  52.264 ms  51.149 ms  52.095 ms
10  207.88.14.242.ptr.us.xo.net (207.88.14.242)  53.236 ms  56.102 ms  52.759
ms
11  te-3-2-0.rar3.denver-co.us.xo.net (207.88.12.42)  89.894 ms  90.060 ms 
91.992 ms
12  ae0d0.mcr1.saltlake-ut.us.xo.net (216.156.0.2)  87.881 ms  104.139 ms 
101.842 ms
13  ae1d0.mcr1.saltlake2-ut.us.xo.net (216.156.1.2)  87.885 ms  88.112 ms 
87.842 ms
14  ip65-46-63-46.z63-46-65.customer.algx.net (65.46.63.46)  89.966 ms  90.378
ms  89.840 ms
15  206.130.126.61.west-datacenter.net (206.130.126.61)  89.836 ms  90.662 ms *
16  * * *
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(Gespalder/77962) Is oldcomputers.net down?

Gespalder@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 02:43:00 -0600

Is oldcomputers.net down?
I was looking at the computers yesterday but today my browser always says that
it failed to open the page.
I have cleared my browser cache

OK, tried again and here is the error

Safari can't open the page "http://oldcomputers.net/comments.shtml" because the
server where this page is located isn't responding.

(KAM/77961) You have to contact the Delegated Manager for the locally-based ...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 04:51:00 -0600


You have to contact the Delegated Manager for the locally-based domain. If you
don't have that contact information, then contact NeuStar and they'll forward
your application to them.

http://www.neustar.us/register/locality

(Marigolds/77960) How the heck do I go about registering a dst.*.mo.us domain name...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 01:32:00 -0600

How the heck do I go about registering a dst.*.mo.us domain name?
This is for a state recognized administrative district in the state of
missouri.

(Fongaboo/77959) A while ago I asked about Dropbox-esque software that used your ...

Fongaboo@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 13:46:00 -0600

A while ago I asked about Dropbox-esque software that used your own server as
the cloud... I tried this one:

http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2011/07/how-to-set-up-a-file-syncing-dropbox-clone
-you-control/

It works great! A snap to set up!

(Big Dan/77958) It's 100.1, but depending on the modem, might not have a whole l...

Big Dan@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:20:00 -0600

It's 100.1, but depending on the modem, might not have a whole lot of useful
info. At best, it'll offer a peek at the logs, but that might only tell you
that the DHCP renew succeeded or failed at the modem.

(River Rat/77957) JL, if you point your browser to 192.168.1.100 or is it 192.168....

River Rat@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:18:00 -0600

JL, if you point your browser to 192.168.1.100 or is it 192.168.100.1 I forget,
long time diagnosing a cable modem.  You can see the page of the cable modem
and you can lok at the logs and see for yourself.

(KAM/77956) The main problem with the Wii browser is that there's not much m...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:20:00 -0600


The main problem with the Wii browser is that there's not much memory or cache
available for it to fetch and render pages as one would expect on other
devices. I suspect the next version of the Wii will significantly improve this.

(Knightshade/77955) It's actually based on Opera 9 (which is still years old mind yo...

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:05:00 -0600

It's actually based on Opera 9 (which is still years old mind you)

(Miser/77954) True, though it could be a flaky connection if it's not getting ...

Miser@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:00:00 -0600

True, though it could be a flaky connection if it's not getting a good enough
signal from your WAP.  Could also be the Wii browser (based on Firefox, I
think?) which is pretty crappy IMO.  I quickly gave up trying to browse the web
without a keyboard when I tested that function on the Wii.

(Knightshade/77953) Sadly the Wii doesn't come with a wired ethernet port.

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:58:00 -0600

Sadly the Wii doesn't come with a wired ethernet port.

But unless ones wifi is AWFUL it's still gonna be faster than the average
internet connection so likely not the issue.

(Miser/77952) Hardwire the Wii to your router rather than use wireless, maybe....

Miser@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:54:00 -0600

Hardwire the Wii to your router rather than use wireless, maybe.  Or move it
closer to the WAP.

(Rick Jenkins/77951) I just found out that the Wii my kids got for Xmas can act as a ...

Rick Jenkins@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:46:00 -0600


I just found out that the Wii my kids got for Xmas can act as a browser.

I tried it out last night. It works, but it's clunky. About as fast as dial-up
and it's difficult to read text on the web pages. Our internet connection at
home is fairly fast otherwise. I think around 20MB/s...?

Anything I can do to improve the quality of the internet connection on the Wii
for browsing purposes?

(Banshee/77950) JL> Your router is an embedded system. If it doesn't have logs...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:46:00 -0600


JL>  Your router is an embedded system.  If it doesn't have logs telling you
what is actually wrong, I'm not sure what you expect the answer to be.  If you
are unable or unwilling to connect a machine directly to the modem that could
tell you the actual problem, your options are limited.

1)  Go buy a cheap router and swap it out.  If the problem persists, it
obviously isn't the router.  Return it.

2)  Update/Reset your router's firmware and reconfigure it and hope.

3)  See if alternative firmware is available (Tomato/WW-DRT) that might
offer more in the way of diagnostic tools

4)  Look at your router interface more harder to see if there are actually
logs you are missing that tell you what the problem is.

(Knightshade/77949) On the other hand if you plug the laptop in and it STILL doesn't...

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:29:00 -0600

On the other hand if you plug the laptop in and it STILL doesn't work you've
succesfully determined the problem is the modem (or something upstreat of it)
in 30 seconds.

Which might be worth trying.

(JL/77948) Oops, I typed "router" instead of "modem" in my previous post.

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:17:00 -0600

Oops, I typed "router" instead of "modem" in my previous post.
Guys, I'm not stupid...

The problem is potentially the modem. If the modem has a nasty habit of just
randomly or regularly not seeing the device that is connected to it, or no
longer listening to its request for an IP address, then I want to figure that
out.

Connecting a laptop to the modem may work, because it sees a new device.

I would need to leave the laptop connected directly to the modem for days to
see if the connection is ever dropped by the modem.

I can't do that because
 (1) The modem is not in an accessible place where I could use a laptop
 (2) I don't have a spare laptop to leave there
 (3) No one else in the house would be able to access the internet

What I was hoping for was some way to diagnose *why* the router can't get an IP
address - is there no network traffic at all? No DHCP server found? No
connection to modem at all?

(Banshee/77947) JL> Don't connect a device to the router. Connect a device to ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:46:00 -0600


JL>  Don't connect a device to the router.  Connect a device to the modem.
You have to remove the router from the equation.  If a device stays connected
to the modem without issue then the problem is your router.

That is all there is to it.

(Knightshade/77946) Feb 8, 2012 10:21 from JL

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:31:00 -0600




Feb 8, 2012 10:21 from JL
It might, but not necessarily.

If the problem is that the router loses its connection to the device that is
attached to it, and stops serving up a new IP address, then connecting a laptop
to it won't diagnose that.








Uh... what?


the suggestion was to plug the laptop directly into the cable modem.

Leave the router unplugged entirely.


if that works then the problem is likely the router.

(Danix/77945) Hm ... wait, now that I remember, back in ye olde RoadRunner day...

Danix@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:23:00 -0600

Hm ... wait, now that I remember, back in ye olde RoadRunner days, the
cablemodem would be set by default in 'anal' mode. If you plugged in another
PC, it would detect the MAC addy mismatch and lock itself up. You had to call
Time Warner for 'em to unlock it; they forced you into having only one PC
connected at all; no PC switching. Are cable co's still doing this?

(JL/77944) It might, but not necessarily.

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:21:00 -0600

It might, but not necessarily.

If the problem is that the router loses its connection to the device that is
attached to it, and stops serving up a new IP address, then connecting a laptop
to it won't diagnose that. Because the laptop is a new device and will work
just fine.

(Banshee/77943) You asked how to tell if the problem was the router or the modem...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:15:00 -0600


You asked how to tell if the problem was the router or the modem or the
network.  If you are getting green lights on the modem, it most likely isn't
the network.  The next step is to remove the router.

So yes, removing the routing will really point the finger correctly.

(JL/77942) I don't really have a computer that I can connect directly to th...

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 05:13:00 -0600

I don't really have a computer that I can connect directly to the modem at the
moment.

Plus, will that really point the finger correctly?

Hooking up a new device may get an IP, but that could also mean that the modem
is bad because it stops seeing the device that is hooked up to it.

(Banshee/77941) JL> Any reason why you aren't connecting directly to the modem ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 04:44:00 -0600


JL>  Any reason why you aren't connecting directly to the modem and removing
the Linksys device from the equation?  That's going to answer half your
questions right there.

(Knightshade/77940) Plus the computer directly into the cable modem.

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 04:32:00 -0600

Plus the computer directly into the cable modem.

if it still doesn't work it's definitely not a router problem.

(JL/77939) (here or Networking>?)

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 08 Feb 2012 04:28:00 -0600

(here or Networking>?)

My cable internet is flaky. Mediacom. Need advise on how to diagnose.

Symptoms:
 1. All lights are green on the cable modem
 2. Linksys wireless router connected to modem
 3. Using the Linksys admin interface, I see the IP address as 0.0.0.0
 4. Try releasing the DHCP lease and renewing it, no luck. Still 0.0.0.0
 5. Tried unplugging both the router and modem. No luck. Same.

How can I figure out if it's a modem problem or a router problem or a network
problem?

Mediacom tech support is worthless. They take a week to get someone out.

This happens quite often, actually. Last time a tech was out he said the area
does have problems with its cabling. Great.


MOSTLY I just want to figure out if it's a router problem, in which case I will
buy a new one. I just don't know how to properly place the blame.

(Danix/77938) Crackberries have a PasswordKeeper app included in the OS.That's...

Danix@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Feb 2012 06:19:00 -0600

Crackberries have a PasswordKeeper app included in the OS.That's what I've been
using since 2008; before that I used Schneier's password locker app on the PC
(can't remember what it was called).

(Feoh/77937) 1Password is wonderful for this. Will generate utterly random...

Feoh@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 06 Feb 2012 02:56:00 -0600

1Password is *wonderful* for this.  Will generate utterly random passwords, and
has browser extensions that will automagically log you into your favorite
sites.  Plus smart phone apps, dunno about Crackberry though :)

(Danix/77936) I had a weaker password on some stuff that I rarely used, with t...

Danix@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 06:03:00 -0600

I had a weaker password on some stuff that I rarely used, with the exception of
Twitter. When Gawker got 0wned, my ultra-weak password got published to the
four winds (I know, I got the torrent with the list to cross-check exactly
that) but by then I only used it in IMDb (no big matter) and Amazon (changed it
real quick).

Then the PSN got 0wned, which also had another weak password (I had not put
sensitive CC info b/c that option wasn't available before 2010-04-01 and I
still hadn't bought my second PS3) which I also used in Twitter and a couple of
other stuff. Someone actually broke into my Twitter account to send spammy DMs
before Twitter suspended my account for "suspect break-in".

Ever since, I've been using my BB's password app to generate random passwords
for "insecure" services and using those.

(KAM/77935) Ditto, had a hotmail account with an old, weaker password compro...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:41:00 -0600


Ditto, had a hotmail account with an old, weaker password compromised earlier
this week. I rarely use it, but got some spam sent to my Yahoo account. That
may be the last one where I was using this particula rpassword.

(The After Party/77934) Banshee

The After Party@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:11:00 -0600

Banshee

  Our good friend Ayourk was vicitm to this as well.
  I got a couple emails from him that were clearly phishing links.

(Banshee/77932) Not the same computer. I can only imagine this was a brute-forc...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 04:45:00 -0600


Not the same computer.  I can only imagine this was a brute-force attempt.  My
wife isn't really someone who would be susceptible to installing a trojan, and
she's using Google Chrome on OS X as a browser, so with aren't talking about IE
drive-bys or anything.

(SilverEdge/77931) Banshee> If they use the same computer, and their computer was c...

SilverEdge@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 04:39:00 -0600

Banshee> If they use the same computer, and their computer was compromised,
keyloggers/trojans are easy to get passwords through.  Had that happen to a
coworker, they ended up getting email and CC transaction info.  That was a mess
to clean up.

(Banshee/77930) Is there some new password cracking effort against hotmail going...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Feb 2012 04:33:00 -0600


Is there some new password cracking effort against hotmail going right now?  In
the past two weeks both my dad and my wife's accounts have been compromised and
the passwords and security questions were changed.  After that, a phishing mail
was sent to everyone in their address books...

Not sure about my dad, but my wife's password was decent.  Not great, but at
least it was 5 letters and 4 numbers...

(Fongaboo/77929) I have Alpine (successor to Pine) set up to act as an IMAP accou...

Fongaboo@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 21:36:00 -0600

I have Alpine (successor to Pine) set up to act as an IMAP account using a
virtual email account. There are contexts where Alpine seems to combine my UNIX
shell login username with what I have set in Settings for 'User Domain'. The
result is an email address that doesn't exist because the prefix to my virtual
email address is not the same as my UNIX shell username.

Some instances where this shows up is when I first run Alpine and it asks for
login information to the IMAP server, the default it provides is this mish-mosh
address. Another instance is if I bounce a message manually, it adds the header
X-Resent-From: and lists that non-existent address.

Is there a way to change the address that appears in this instance, either with
..pinerc or in Settings?

(Boogie With Stu/77928) Me again. I got sparkleshare up and running on my WLAN here at ...

Boogie With Stu@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 25 Jan 2012 09:00:00 -0600

Me again.  I got sparkleshare up and running on my WLAN here at home.  Seems
good so far.  Seems like everything's built on top of openssh and git, and a
couple things are still in the works that will be necessary for mass adoption:

a web console for easy adminisration
a Windows client

But if you're reading this forum and know you have an openssh server running
somewhere, you can make it work in a few seconds (at least with the Mac OS X
client...didn't try one for Linux yet).

(Boogie With Stu/77927) From that lifehacker.com.au link (thanks for that!) I found a li...

Boogie With Stu@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 20:17:00 -0600

From that lifehacker.com.au link (thanks for that!) I found a link to
SparkleShare (http://sparkleshare.org), which looks promising.  I plan on
trying that out soon.

(Fongaboo/77926) I found this, but haven't tried it yet:

Fongaboo@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 11:55:00 -0600

I found this, but haven't tried it yet:

http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2011/07/how-to-set-up-a-file-syncing-dropbox-clone
-you-control/

(Feoh/77925) You could just use something like ExpanDrive /Fuse and SSH. Wha...

Feoh@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:34:00 -0600

You could just use something like ExpanDrive /Fuse and SSH.  What kinds of
client machines are you planning on using?

(Archmage/77924) isnt webdav slow as fuk, or is Apple just fucking that up.?

Archmage@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 10:25:00 -0600

isnt webdav slow as fuk, or is Apple just fucking that up.?

(Nightspawn/77923) Fongaboo, if you find one let me know, I'd love to have that fun...

Nightspawn@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 09:19:00 -0600

Fongaboo, if you find one let me know, I'd love to have that functionality so
I'm not limited to 3gb for local syncing via dropbox.

(Banshee/77922) Fongaboo> What part of DropBox functionality do you want? If y...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 06:30:00 -0600


Fongaboo>  What part of DropBox functionality do you want?  If you don't care
about the local auto-sync, but just want a "shared" resource, you could go with
WebDAV.  All those OSes should be able to use WebDAV as a type of filesystem.
Although I'm not exactly sure if Windows accecpts the "Web Folders" as a valid
path sort of thing.

(Fongaboo/77921) Is there any software out there for Win/Mac/Linux that operates ...

Fongaboo@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 15:44:00 -0600

Is there any software out there for Win/Mac/Linux that operates like DropBox,
but uses my own colo server as the cloud storage?

(Gespalder/77920) If you use Picnik it is being shut down

Gespalder@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 21 Jan 2012 08:19:00 -0600

If you use Picnik it is being shut down

Picnik: We acquired this online photo editor in 2010. We're retiring the
service on April 19, 2012 so the Picnik team can continue creating
photo-editing magic across Google products. You can download a zip file of your
creations through Picnik Takeout or copy them to Google+. As of now, the
premium service is free to everyone. Premium members will receive a full refund
in the coming weeks.

(Miser/77919) Wow, "fuzzy dates"! Wish I'd thought of such a cool "feature"!

Miser@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 17 Jan 2012 11:35:00 -0600

Wow, "fuzzy dates"!  Wish I'd thought of such a cool "feature"!

(KAM/77918) uTorrent / Date Sorting> AHA! Found it! I wanted to change the c...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 16 Jan 2012 16:01:00 -0600


uTorrent / Date Sorting> AHA! Found it! I wanted to change the colums that show
the dates from displaying "1 day ago", "1 week ago" etc back to a normal
date/time stamp.

Solution: go into Advanced settings and modify gui.use_fuzzy_dates from true
to false. TADAH!

(Green/77917) I thought there were over a hundred top level domains (TLDs) jus...

Green@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 13 Jan 2012 01:34:00 -0600

I thought there were over a hundred top level domains (TLDs) just for
individual countries. Buh?

(River Rat/77916) Every since the very beginning of the Internet, new top level do...

River Rat@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 14:58:00 -0600

Every since the very beginning of the Internet, new top level domains (TLD)
have been added incrementally. Currently the number of TLDs stands at 22, but
thanks to a process that begins today that number could be over 1,000 by this
time next year.

The new TLDs are known as generic top level domains (gTLD) and can potentially
be any word, in nearly any type of human language script. The current pool of
TLDs are entirely in Latin script and include among others: .com, .net, .org
and country codes TLDs (ccTLDs) like .de (Germany) and .cn (China).

"This is the first time in the history of the Internet that generic top level
domains can be created in non-Latin characters," Rod Beckstrom, CEO of ICANN
said during a press conference announcing the start of the gTLD program.

Non-Latin characters had previously only been available as part of
internationalized domain names (IDNs) for country code TLDs (ccTLD). The IDN
process officially approved the first non-Lation IDN ccTLDs in 2010.

The path to today's historic milestone comes after over six years of debate and
discussion. The gTLD program was officially approved by ICANN as a program to
implement in a meeting in Singapore in June of 2010.

"We think the world is ready for this innovation," Beckstrom said. "We believe
that this program will do what it is designed to do, which is open up the
Internet domain name system to further innovation."

Beckstrom noted that there has been concern about the program and he stressed
that the initiative has multiple protections in place to protect trademark and
rights holders for intellectual property and names. In Beckstrom's view, the
new gTLD system will help improve competition in the Internet, as well. He
noted that domain name prices have dropped by over 70 percent since ICANN was
first formed 12 years ago.

The process by which new gTLDs will be granted is a complex and costly one.
Applicants are required to pay a fee of $185,000 to even be considered. The
people behind a bid are all subject to background checks. New gTLD applications
will be publicly posted for public comment prior to approval. The initial
application period is open for the next three months, in which time ICANN could
handle as many as 1,000 new gTLD applications.

"With the new TLD program, you'll see entirely new business names that are
related to the names that people are able to get in the top level domain
system," Beckstrom said.

Sean Michael Kerner is a senior editor at InternetNews.com, the news service of
the IT Business Edge Network, the network for technology professionals. Follow
him on Twitter @TechJournalist ##

(KAM/77915) Most of the torrents that I download are sports related, and the...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 05:21:00 -0600


Most of the torrents that I download are sports related, and their downloads
are roughly within a few hours of when the event took place. Seeing the date
helps me keep track of what I've actually watched and still need to watch. I
also participate in closed communities that require high ratios and I like
being able to quickly see how far a particular download goes back to determine
whether or not I should continue to seed it.

(Knightshade/77914) Once it's downloaded, why would you care at all?

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 03:22:00 -0600

Once it's downloaded, why would you care at all?

I rarely use torrents anymore, but when I do I immediately delete it out of the
program once the D/L is finished anyway.

(KAM/77913) I just prefer to sort my uTorrent downloads by the date they wer...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:34:00 -0600


I just prefer to sort my uTorrent downloads by the date they were downloaded,
rather than by name, ratio shared, etc. "One month ago" just isn't to my
liking.

(Banshee/77912) Does the date you've downloaded a file carry some type of signif...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:18:00 -0600


Does the date you've downloaded a file carry some type of significance?  The
created date on the file, itself, reflects the time it was created, right?

(KAM/77911) I finally updated uTorrent to the current version 3.1 and WOW ...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:36:00 -0600


I *finally* updated uTorrent to the current version 3.1 and WOW I don't like
the UI change at all.

Biggest annoyance. My downloaded file dates now show up as downloaded "a day
ago", "a week ago", etc instead of an actual date. I've been trying to google
on how to chnage this and I can't find ANYTHING. Anybody know?

(JL/77910) Google Docs> I have a Google Document, and I want to insert book...

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 10 Jan 2012 10:17:00 -0600


Google Docs> I have a Google Document, and I want to insert bookmarks.

This will let me linked to the Doc with <url>#bookmarkid

But, I can't find a way to define the bookmark id myself. Instead, they are all
generated with nasty characters.

I would like to provide user-friendly hash links to part of my doc.

Does anyone know if it's possible?

(Snuffy/77909) thanks all, I'll give those a try.

Snuffy@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 09:54:00 -0600

thanks all, I'll give those a try.

(Banshee/77908) Snuffy> Also,

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 09:30:00 -0600


Snuffy>  Also,

  Tools -> Web Developer -> Page Source

  or Ctrl + u

(The After Party/77907) FF 9.0.1

The After Party@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 09:20:00 -0600

FF 9.0.1

  Right click on the page, view page source.
  There in my FF 9.0.1

(Snuffy/77906) Jan 6, 2012 19:41 from Snuffy

Snuffy@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 09:07:00 -0600

Jan 6, 2012 19:41 from Snuffy
Firefox 9.0.1 (Windows)
Did they remove the View, Page Source option completely, or just move it?
compared to 3.6.24 ?

[posted originally about 25 back, either "uninteresting" (likely) or just
swamped out by the gmail interface debate.]
[amazing how interface issues cause such strong feelings.  I'm not thrilled
with removal of "view source" option in Firefox 9, KAM's incensed about gmail,
and there was the whole Lotus 123 vs. Quatro interface thing 20+ years ago.
the more things change, the more they stay the same ...]

(Feoh/77905) Banshee> Font size was all I was after. Maybe I was jsut confus...

Feoh@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 08:20:00 -0600

Banshee> Font size was all I was after.  Maybe I was jsut confused?  Happened
before :) Anyway it works now.  Thanks a bunch for pointing me in the right
direction.

I do like Sparrow a lot. The label navigation isn't QUITE as smooth as the
GMail web UI, but OTOH as you say it's not beaming ads at my eyeballs either :)

(Banshee/77904) Yeah, Sparrow is pretty neat.

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 07:56:00 -0600


Yeah, Sparrow is pretty neat.

I looked through their changelogs, but didn't see anything about fonts.  Not
sure when they added that.  I don't see a way to actually change the font,
either.  But Helvetica or whatever it is looks nice enough.

(Feoh/77903) Banshee> Sweet they must have added that recently. Thanks for l...

Feoh@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 07:45:00 -0600

Banshee> Sweet they must have added that recently.  Thanks for letting me know!

(Banshee/77902) Feoh> Out of curiosity I gave Sparrow a shot and, for the recor...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 06:12:00 -0600


Feoh>  Out of curiosity I gave Sparrow a shot and, for the record, you can
adjust the font in the reading pane by using the standard OS X key combo of
Command and plus/minus to increase or decrease the font, respectively.  That
change appears to be sticky and will apply to all messages (even after you
quit and re-open the app).

(Lxndr/77900) usually, hope it learns

Lxndr@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 05:50:00 -0600


usually, hope it learns
but you CAN set up a 'filter'

(Egregious/77899) In Gmail, is there a way to get certain messages always put into...

Egregious@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 05:49:00 -0600


In Gmail, is there a way to get certain messages always put into the spam
folder?  Or do I have to keep reporting them and home it learns?

(Feoh/77898) Let me add Sparrow to that list. It does labels, and I was way ...

Feoh@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Jan 2012 04:51:00 -0600

Let me add Sparrow to that list.  It does labels, and I was way excited about
it until I realized they're a bunch of dumb asses and won't let you adjust the
font size in the reading pane.  Really guys, REALLY? It's an _OSX ONLY_ app for
g* sake! :)

http://sparrowmailapp.com/

(Banshee/77897) Distant Horizon> I suggested that folks who don't like the inte...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:50:00 -0600


Distant Horizon>  I suggested that folks who don't like the interface should
try a different interface.  I'm not "bent on you using a mail client".  I was
just stating an obvious solution to a trivial problem.

Absolutely no clue where you got the trains part.

(Distant Horizon/77896) They're a little line of plain text, right above the buttons. W...

Distant Horizon@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 16:26:00 -0600

They're a little line of plain text, right above the buttons.  With gmail open
in my browser, the ad is taking up 1 or 2% of the browser height.  I guess they
are well enough placed that I see them now and then, but they're not very
obtrusive, and I've never clicked on one, intentionally or otherwise.

I still don't understand why Banshee is so bent on me liking trains or using a
mail client.

(WORF/77895) GMail is ad free if you access it via IMAP or EAS.

WORF@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:55:00 -0600


GMail is ad free if you access it via IMAP or EAS.

Ads only in web client.

(Justin Case/77894) Again, Gmail has ads? Ya'll need some AdBlocker in your lives. ...

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 07:30:00 -0600

Again, Gmail has ads?  Ya'll need some AdBlocker in your lives.  :)

(Banshee/77893) That's also possible. And I don't really care what they're doin...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:51:00 -0600


That's also possible.  And I don't really care what they're doing.  I was
actually just wondering why people use the web interface at all.  The "right"
(or justification or whatever) to bitch about changes to the web interface was
just a tangent of that.

Feoh hit the nail on the head, which is that the web interface can do a few
things a POP/IMAP client can't.  Such as labels.  I was waiting for someone to
say that.  And hotkeys are one of those things a user might have invested time
in learning they don't want to give up.

But I think Foeh was the only one who mentioned those things.  So you might
just want to actually TRY an email client instead of using the web interface.
You might like it better!

http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/

http://www.opera.com/download/

http://www.postbox-inc.com/features

Just saw that last one.  It looks pretty interesting.

(KAM/77892) If you think they're changing it up because of the ads, then you...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:47:00 -0600


If you think they're changing it up because of the ads, then you haven't been
following what Google is actually doing.

(Banshee/77891) Surrending your personal information as payment, while probably ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:33:00 -0600


Surrending your personal information as payment, while probably the _most_
disturbing part of the service (don't forget, you "opt" in your friends who
send you things too!) is only one piece of the puzzle.

Google makes money off of ads.  The Gmail web interface shows ads.  I'm giving
Google the benefit of the doubt that they aren't just changing a successful
product for the fuck of it.  Why bother?  No.  They are changing the interface
because they probably tested a sampling of users and found they get a better
response to the ads.

But whatever.  I mean, sure ... you surrender your privacy.  You let them
monitor your communications.  Chats.  Friends.  Whatever!  But don't they
damned touch the UI!  That's something you won't even assign a monetary value
to, but get's y'all root'n toot'n mad.

Dats messed up yo.

(KAM/77890) So, paying money shows that I'm serious about my complaints, but...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 06:06:00 -0600


So, paying money shows that I'm serious about my complaints, but surrendering
personal information about myself that a company can use for data mining and
can monitor my usage and communications shows that I'm just bitching for the
sake of bitching?

Mkay then.

(Banshee/77889) It's simple. I don't believe him.

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 08 Jan 2012 05:21:00 -0600


It's simple.  I don't believe him.

When you bitch about a free service, the first thing I want to understand is
how serious you are ... or if you are just bitching for the sake of bitching.
Seriously, you wouldn't pay $0.01 for the privilege of keeping something
exactly the way you like it for the rest of your life?  A penny?  Forever?
No?  That's ridiculous.

But then again, the service isn't really free is it?  You pay with your
eyeballs.  And if you don't want to use any other currency, then you're
going to be subjected to whatever Google wants to show you and HOW they
want to show it you.

Them's the breaks, fellas.

(Mama K/77888) Dude. Seriously. He said $0. How complicated is it to read???

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:43:00 -0600

Dude.  Seriously.  He said $0.  How complicated is it to read???

(KAM/77887) I've not made any complaints about the placement of the ads. The...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:42:00 -0600


I've not made any complaints about the placement of the ads. They could keep
the same UI while moving the ads around, in fact.

(Banshee/77886) Right. I was implying the service would no longer be supported ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:33:00 -0600


Right.  I was implying the service would no longer be supported by ads.  After
all, part of the new look is making the targeted ad bar more apparent, right?

See, you are _currently_ paying to use the service with your eyeballs (well
that and you and your friends' generic privacy).  In that sense, Google is
going to dictate how you see shit because how you see shit is how you pay.

But if that wasn't the case, if there weren't ads and you got to dictate the
interface as a cash-money paying user, what would it be worth to you?

(KAM/77885) No, you still missed it. Here, let me point you to the post:

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:11:00 -0600


No, you still missed it. Here, let me point you to the post:

[INet FTP Download Telnet IRC> msg #77871

(Banshee/77884) Didn't miss it. Still waiting. This has nothing to do with the...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 14:06:00 -0600


Didn't miss it.  Still waiting.  This has nothing to do with their decision one
way or another.  I'm asking, IF Google offered you the ability to pay to keep
the current UI, how much is it worth to you?

$5/mo?  $25/yr?  $100/lifetime?  What's your top dollar, if you had to vote for
the UI with your wallet?

(KAM/77882) Scroll back a few posts, you missed it.

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 13:23:00 -0600


Scroll back a few posts, you missed it.

Then scroll back a few more posts where I point out that cost of the service
has nothing to do with a horrible decision to upset users by fucking with a UI
for no worthwhile reason.

(Banshee/77880) Sure. Google selected an ad-based model rather than a subscript...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 13:07:00 -0600


Sure.  Google selected an ad-based model rather than a subscription model
because it was the most popular option.  Google updated the interface on their
ad-based model because, again, it was the popular request.

But you don't like the interface.  So I'm asking you how much you would pay to
go the un-popular route.  I'm curious.  What's the current Gmail service + UI
worth to you?

(KAM/77879) And how many accounts do you think Google would sell at $1 trill...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 10:26:00 -0600


And how many accounts do you think Google would sell at $1 trillion?

There's a reason that Google selected an ad-based sales model rather than a
subscription.

(Banshee/77878) KAM> I bet Google would "be willing" to charge you 1 trillion d...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 07 Jan 2012 10:21:00 -0600


KAM>  I bet Google would "be willing" to charge you 1 trillion dollars a minute
for anything.  For that matter, so would I.  Luckily for us that isn't how
business works though.

(JL/77877) KAM> I had the opt-in option for probably 3-4 months before they...

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:20:00 -0600

KAM> I had the opt-in option for probably 3-4 months before they made it
opt-out. *shrug*

(KAM/77876) What would Google be willing to charge to provide an ad-free ser...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 15:17:00 -0600


What would Google be willing to charge to provide an ad-free service? That's
the more important question.

(Zipo/77875) What would you be willing to pay to avoid the ADS?

Zipo@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 15:06:00 -0600

What would you be willing to pay to avoid the ADS?

(Snuffy/77874) Firefox 9.0.1 (Windows)

Snuffy@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 14:41:00 -0600

Firefox 9.0.1 (Windows)
Did they remove the View, Page Source option completely, or just move it?

I'm not liking this so far, compared to 3.6.24

(Distant Horizon/77873) Yes. Right above my "archive", "spam", "delete" etc buttons, I ...

Distant Horizon@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 13:31:00 -0600

Yes.  Right above my "archive", "spam", "delete" etc buttons, I currently have
the opportunity to click "Electrostatic Painting - www.pmf1.com - MIL SPEC,High
Volume,Powder Coating Chemfilm,phosphating,masking,CARC"

Wtf that is, and how it decided to target me with that ad, I dunno.  But gmail
ads are painless.  New GMail interface, painful.  Not sure why they dicked with
the old one, it's good and I switch back every time they try to switch me over.

Gmail's ability to work with other clients is great, but unnecessary for me.
The web interface and my smartphone are all I need it to do.

(Justin Case/77872) There are ads in Gmail?

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:48:00 -0600

There are ads in Gmail?

(KAM/77871) $0.

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:05:00 -0600


$0.

And the reason why is because GMail is an advertising-supported service, with
ads tailored to me based not only on the content of my e-mails that Google can
see, but also based on a lot of personally identifiable information which I've
allowed them to have in exchange for an excellent service that I'm not charged
extra for.

(Banshee/77870) Hey, out of curiosity ... would you guys actually pay Google if ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:01:00 -0600


Hey, out of curiosity ... would you guys actually pay Google if they kept the
old interface around indefinitely?  What would that be worth to you on the
monthly basis?

(Banshee/77869) Impeach Gmail! Don't tread on me!

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 12:00:00 -0600


Impeach Gmail!  Don't tread on me!

(KAM/77868) And, again, no they didn't. They switched you over to the new v...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 11:57:00 -0600


And, again, no they didn't.  They switched you over to the new view first. If
you didn't like the new view, you could select the toption to switch back down
in the corner. Now when you're flipped back over to the new view, you have to
go find it in one of the icons that looks like a cog. And, there's two of those
icons that appear on the UI. If you have a less than stellar memory, good luck
remembering where they moved that option to.

(JL/77867) KAM> What I mean is, they had a very long opt-in-only period, wh...

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:48:00 -0600


KAM> What I mean is, they had a very long opt-in-only period, where you could
decide to switch and try it out. Now it's to the point where it's opt-out for a
while. I thought you were saying they should have an opt-in period first, and I
was pointing out that they did :)

(Feoh/77866) Banshee> Two simple things:

Feoh@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:19:00 -0600

Banshee> Two simple things:
1) Labels.  Labels are not folders.  They can have folder like characteristics,
but ultimately they're completely different and a central part of the GMail
interface paradigm.  I have my filters set to label my messages in all sorts of
complex ways, often having multiple labels per message.

2) A truly simple yet powerful keyboard navigation UI.  I can do *EVERYTHING*
with my email without ever lifting my fingers from the keyboard.  Sort, label,
remove labels, filter on a message, and label a set of messages I just got in
the results of a complex search.

I have yet to find a GUI with this combination of offerings. Many do SOME of #2
but fail miserably when more complex operations are involved like "move this
message to a random folder/label that I specify".  Only 1 GUI mailer that I
know of does #1 (Sparrow) and while I had high hopes for it, it's hopelessly
painful to use since they don't offer adjustable font sizes for the reading
area (Can you believe it? And it's a Mac app!) and their default is painful for
me to read.

(KAM/77865) Yes, it has. And I'm constantly switched over to the new interfa...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 09:47:00 -0600


Yes, it has. And I'm constantly switched over to the new interface and if I
want the old interface back, I can "temporairly" switch back to it.

(JL/77864) The new GMail interface had a very long opt-in test period. Mayb...

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 09:14:00 -0600


The new GMail interface had a very long opt-in test period. Maybe you missed
it.

(KAM/77863) Google usually does do an amazing job of slowly rolling ou chang...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:40:00 -0600


Google usually does do an amazing job of slowly rolling ou changes.

They changed how they go about that this time. In the past, what Google has
done is notify you of things they'd like to do in the future, and give you an
opportunity to opt-in and try them out. If you don't want to try them out, then
you could immediately select to skip it and go about your merry way.

This time, however, Google wants you to try it first, and then decide that if
you don't like it, you have go go back through settings and change it back,
with a warning that this will be temporary and that eventually you're going to
be moved to the new interface. You're given an option to provide feedback. I'm
not confident, based on this new behavior, that they're as genuinely interested
in both hearing the negative feedback and acting on it.

(JL/77862) I use gmail web interface because I don't want to take time pick...

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:33:00 -0600


I use gmail web interface because I don't want to take time picking out an
email client, figuring out what IMAP is and how it works, etc.

I have too many things in my life to figure out. I don't want email to be one
of them.

I think feedback is great. If you don't like the GMail look, complain to them
about it. They want to make it work for everyone, and value feedback.

Email is a commodity. Something most people don't want to deal with, except to
get to the content, which is the emails.

Every time an interface changes, they need to re-learn things, which is a
bother. They just want to get to what they want to see.

But, progress shouldn't be held back because people want it the old way. Things
should evolve.

Google, to their credit, does an AMAZING job of slowly rolling in changes,
giving tutorials, giving the option to back out, and trying to satisfy as many
users as it can.

They do it SO much better than Facebook, which throws massive changes over the
wall without any warning, support, or gathering of feedback.

(Knightshade/77861) Jan 6, 2012 13:12 from Banshee

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:13:00 -0600



Jan 6, 2012 13:12 from Banshee

Let's be honest here ... you can run an IMAP server on 443 just as easily as
you can 993.  Using the gmail web interface because your work doesn't block it
isn't really the same discussion -- or something that would lead one to really
care about the look and feel of the gmail interface.







what?

that makes no sense at all.


You're saying "the fact work only allows gmail access via the web shouldn't
mean you care about if the web interface sucks or not"


How does that follow?

(Banshee/77860) Let's be honest here ... you can run an IMAP server on 443 just ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:12:00 -0600


Let's be honest here ... you can run an IMAP server on 443 just as easily as
you can 993.  Using the gmail web interface because your work doesn't block it
isn't really the same discussion -- or something that would lead one to really
care about the look and feel of the gmail interface.

(Knightshade/77859) Jan 6, 2012 12:41 from Justin Case

Knightshade@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 08:00:00 -0600




Jan 6, 2012 12:41 from Justin Case
IT Security gets really cranky when I ask them to permit IMAP out to Google.

HTTPS is already open and unmonitored...
[INet FTP Download Telnet IRC> msg #77857 (1 remaining)] Read cmd ->




This.

Many workplaces also get annoyed if you try installing your own custom IMAP
client on your work machine too.

Hence a non-crap webmail interface can be a nice thing to have.

(KAM/77858) It's only rediculous because you started off with the premise th...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:45:00 -0600


It's only rediculous because you started off with the premise that it's
rediculous.

(Justin Case/77857) IT Security gets really cranky when I ask them to permit IMAP ou...

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:41:00 -0600

IT Security gets really cranky when I ask them to permit IMAP out to Google.

HTTPS is already open and unmonitored...

(Banshee/77856) I didn't realize the new Gmail UI killed off Gmail.

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:37:00 -0600


I didn't realize the new Gmail UI killed off Gmail.

Also, now this all just got rediculous.  I just wanted to know why people even
used the web interface.  The only answers I've gotten is that they're either
lazy or don't understand IMAP.

I am still genuinely curious what Feoh has to say though...

(KAM/77855) And, sure, I'll buy that argument from Henry Ford, except he nev...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:35:00 -0600


And, sure, I'll buy that argument from Henry Ford, except he never quite stood
by that. When Ford went into the airplane and derigible business, with the
dream of building a superior air-based transportation network, he didn't kill
off his car and truck manufacturing business and force people to start flying
and visiting his airports.

(Banshee/77854) Feoh> See, that's constructive discussion. To further that ... ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:27:00 -0600


Feoh> See, that's constructive discussion.  To further that ... what email
clients have you tried, and what features have you found lacking in them that
brings you back to the Gmail web interface?

KAM>  Sure, I get it.  There's nothing wrong with the web interface (to you).
But often I'm reminded of the famous words Henry Ford (may have) said:

  "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

(Feoh/77853) Banshee> I'm with Stilgar and others. The GMail web UI is bette...

Feoh@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:23:00 -0600

Banshee> I'm with Stilgar and others.  The GMail web UI is better than any
local email client I have yet to encounter.  I use IMAP for syncing my mail to
my iPhone, because in that context not needing to be connected to read mail is
nice, but for real computing, I've yet to find anything that beats the Gmail
interface.

(KAM/77852) Why should it make any difference whether or not Google charges ...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:20:00 -0600


Why should it make any difference whether or not Google charges for this
service?

The problem isn't with the price of the service. The problem is with changes
that are being forced onto users for ABSOLUTELY NO good reason.

(Banshee/77851) When you read email with Gmail's new UI, you read email with Hit...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:14:00 -0600


When you read email with Gmail's new UI, you read email with Hitler.

(Justin Case/77850) There are a lot of people against SOPA. Because it is a stupid ...

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:13:00 -0600

There are a lot of people against SOPA.  Because it is a stupid law.

(Banshee/77849) You all should seriously demand a refund from Google. This is e...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:13:00 -0600


You all should seriously demand a refund from Google.  This is exactly why
the occupy wallstreet protestors are against SOPA.

(KAM/77848) Not when their client is also my client, and IMO the new interfa...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:57:00 -0600


Not when their client is also my client, and IMO the new interface sucks, is
less intuitive, is less helpful, causes more problems and disrupts my work.

This is why I switched from Yahoo Mail. Every couple of years they roll out an
entire new interface, it displaces where the old stuff is, and in Yahoo's case
(not Google's, thankfully), the new interface often came with significant UI
breakage that took them MONTHS to address and fix.

The reasons I don't use IMAP is the same reason I stopped using all other
e-mail clients - I don't CARE how it works, as long as it works, it's reliable
and I don't have to fuck with anything. That's how GMail got very popular,
very quick.

For those who like the new UI, great, they should be able to enjoy that.
There's nothing WRONG with the current interface. It's not like it won't render
in damn-near any browser or was implemented using some hokey Web.something
crap that is years out of date and fails to cascade grcefully in browsers.

(Egregious/77847) I didn't realize we had fallen back into discussing what Google ...

Egregious@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 07:01:00 -0600


I didn't realize we had fallen back into discussing what Google is legally
allowed to do.

(Banshee/77846) KAM> Not understanding how something works and not caring how s...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:55:00 -0600


KAM>  Not understanding how something works and not caring how something works
is fine.  Your call.  I was just pointing out that the reasons you provided for
not usingIMAP are not exclusive to the web interface.  IMAP has you covered.

People complaining about the gmail interface just seems completely backwards to
me.  They provide a service, for free, that can interface with ANY clinet you
want.  Yu can customize your client to your heart's content.  Shouldn't they be
allowed to do whatever they want with THEIR client?

(KAM/77844) I don't care how IMAP works. I know GMail works. It works well. ...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:49:00 -0600


I don't care how IMAP works. I know GMail works. It works well. No need to fuck
with it. That's why I'm bitching.

(Banshee/77843) KAM> "I don't want to deal with the hassle of setting up multip...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:44:00 -0600


KAM>  "I don't want to deal with the hassle of setting up multiple e-mail
clients and figuring out where my e-mails went."

That isn't how IMAP works!

Stilgar>  I understand what you are saying with spam filters and whatnot, but
in this example you are ALREADY using gmail to filter your mail.  You can shut
spam filters completely off for your gmail account.  Google has already put
your mail inot junk folders.

(Stilgar/77842) I also use only the Gmail web interface. I like it better than ...

Stilgar@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:39:00 -0600

I also use only the Gmail web interface.  I like it better than any other mail
client I use (yes, even the new interface).  IMAP is better for multi-computer
use than POP, but you still have different client settings and spam filters, to
deal with.  Plus I don't have to install anything on my machine or worry about
upgrades and all that.

(KAM/77841) My reason why is simple: my PCs are too much of a single-source ...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:35:00 -0600


My reason why is simple: my PCs are too much of a single-source failure, and I
depend on my e-mail way too much. I don't want to deal with the hassle of
setting up multiple e-mail clients and figuring out where my e-mails went.

GMail is easy, it's convenient, it's one place, it's infantly more reliable
than any PC I set up. Their current interface is, IMO, damn-near perfect.

If it isn't broken, don't fix it. Offer new features for those who want it, but
if users don't want it, don't be a Zuckerburg and force it on them.

(WORF/77840) Banshee> Gmail even supports EAS on mobile devices for free. (Yo...

WORF@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:30:00 -0600


Banshee> Gmail even supports EAS on mobile devices for free. (You've got to pay
if you want EAS support via Outlook on the PC, but that's $50/yr).

(Egregious/77839) I don't want to deal with that shit. The configuration of movin...

Egregious@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:10:00 -0600

I don't want to deal with that shit.  The configuration of moving to a new
computer consists of 1) typing my passowrd, and 2) checking my cell phone for
the second-factor authentication google sends me.

Oh, and I'm automatically signed into gchat.

(Banshee/77838) Right, multiple computers. Isn't that what IMAP is for? I use ...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:10:00 -0600


Right, multiple computers.  Isn't that what IMAP is for?  I use three different
computers.  I set up my gmail account on each one ... 3 years ago (well, one
machine is only 6 months old, but whatever).  Those computers cover 90% of
my computer-time.  Probably 99% over the course of a year.  If I'm on any other
machine I use the web interface.

It takes a one-time config, which is measured in minutes.  With the backlash
the gmail interface seems to get here I'm honestly curious why people use the
web interface at all.

(Egregious/77836) Because I use multiple computers and don't want to deal with tha...

Egregious@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 06:03:00 -0600

Because I use multiple computers and don't want to deal with that shit.

(Banshee/77835) I'm still curious as to why people use the gmail _web_ interface...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 05:57:00 -0600


I'm still curious as to why people use the gmail _web_ interface?  I mean, it
is nice in a pinch, on the road and whatnot, but they do POP.  They do IMAP.
Why not just use a real email client?

(Egregious/77834) They put me onto it, but I still rolled it back, despite them th...

Egregious@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 05:45:00 -0600

They put me onto it, but I still rolled it back, despite them threatening to
take it away at some point.

I couldn't even proceed until I watched a video of the developer who worked
really hard on it.

(Feoh/77833) The new GMail interface is freaking HORRIBLE. About a zillion v...

Feoh@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Jan 2012 02:39:00 -0600

The new GMail interface is freaking HORRIBLE.  About a zillion vision impaired
people, myself included, whined piteously when they rolled it out because it
was totally unreadable for us.  In response, they created the 'high contrast'
theme, which at least now is usable and doesn't give me a blinding headache
after about 20 minutes of use, which the old one did.

(JL/77832) I keep reverting also.

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 18:49:00 -0600

I keep reverting also.

One of the things I use most is my "Select Unread" link which my Stylish script
puts right below the button bar, rather than in the "select" dropdown.

I can't live without that, and the new style breaks it. Damn Google.

(Rick Jenkins/77831) I was a little annoyed with the new Gmail interface at first, bu...

Rick Jenkins@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 15:24:00 -0600


I was a little annoyed with the new Gmail interface at first, but just
yesterday I thought to myself that I hadn't been irritated by it or not be ble
to find something for the last several weeks. I guess I've gotten used to it.

(KAM/77830) It only asked me once, back when they first started rolling it o...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 15:17:00 -0600


It only asked me once, back when they first started rolling it out. Today I got
no option to roll it back.

(Justin Case/77829) So far, I keep getting by with the "revert to old style" button....

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 14:57:00 -0600

So far, I keep getting by with the "revert to old style" button.  It lasts for
about 2 weeks and puts itself back to the new flavor.  So I just revert again.
Annoying, but not as annoying as the new interface.

(KAM/77828) For those who are annoyed to hell about the new GMail interface,...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 14:18:00 -0600


For those who are annoyed to hell about the new GMail interface, here's a
UserStyles script which mimics the old view. Stylish for Mozilla Firefox or
Google Chrome required, Opera shoulde be able to run the script natively.

http://userstyles.org/styles/57755/the-return-of-old-gmail

(Justin Case/77827) Oh, I'm sure if I wanted access to one of our many, many, many U...

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 03:24:00 -0600

Oh, I'm sure if I wanted access to one of our many, many, many Unix boxes, I
could get it.

But we have split DNS here.  I don't want to see the results from our inside
DNS servers when I'm working on configuring stuff on the outside.

(The After Party/77826) JC

The After Party@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 03:05:00 -0600

JC

  What's your job that doesn't provide a unix shell?
  There is whois.exe for windows ...

(Justin Case/77825) The shell account is my personal account. I'm not letting ano...

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 05 Jan 2012 02:21:00 -0600

The shell account is my *personal* account.  I'm not letting another coworker
have access to it.  I pay for it.  It is hosted by Riddler, on here.

(Snuffy/77824) JC,

Snuffy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 14:12:00 -0600

JC,
you should have HER figure some of this out.
have her build the script.  will take coaching, but will be worth it later.
why her no shell-acct?  JC for to fix not?

(Justin Case/77823) Thanks guys.

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 04:59:00 -0600

Thanks guys.

(The After Party/77822) JC

The After Party@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 04:56:00 -0600

JC

  Heh.
  Well, I gave ya both.
  When I need whois, i google and pick one I like. Seems whois.net and
  whois.sc are near the top of the list so I use them.

(Banshee/77821) Justin Case> If you have a *nix webserver handy, you could crea...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 04:57:00 -0600


Justin Case>  If you have a *nix webserver handy, you could create a simple
script (php, perl, python, whatever) to run command line tools and pipe the
output to the browser for her.  Maybe even build a page with a bunch of CLI
tools for her like that.


<?php
$d = $_REQUEST['domain'];
$c = sprintf("whois %s", escapeshellarg($d));
$s = shell_exec($c);
?>

    <html>
    <body>
    <form>
    Domain:
    <input name="domain" type="text" value="<?php echo $d; ?>">
    <input type="submit">
    </form>
    <php echo $s; ?>
    </body>
    </html>

(Justin Case/77820) TAP-->I'm a pretty keen Google user. While I'm very able to loo...

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 04:28:00 -0600

TAP-->I'm a pretty keen Google user.  While I'm very able to look stuff up, I
was looking for recomendations on personal experiences...

(The After Party/77819) JC

The After Party@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 03:39:00 -0600

JC

  Google whois
  I don't like network solutions or godaddy.
  whois.net looks good.

(Miser/77818) If it doesn't need to be local, she could just use Godaddy's who...

Miser@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 02:59:00 -0600

If it doesn't need to be local, she could just use Godaddy's whois.  It's a
link at the bottom of the page.

(Justin Case/77817) Can anyone recommend a good web based WHOIS system? I've (final...

Justin Case@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 04 Jan 2012 02:36:00 -0600

Can anyone recommend a good web based WHOIS system?  I've (finally) been given
a lackey^H^H^H^H backup^H^H^H^H help.  But she's very green.  When I need
WHOIS, I use my Unix shell.  She doesn't have access to such a shell.

(Gespalder/77816) Not on that site.

Gespalder@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 07:40:00 -0600

Not on that site.
I do sometimes for those site with flash movies

(Banshee/77815) Gespalder> What does "If you chosose to" mean? And are you cho...

Banshee@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 01 Jan 2012 03:08:00 -0600


Gespalder>  What does "If you chosose to" mean?  And are you choosing to
enable Flash on that site?

(Gespalder/77814) coke.com/arctichome

Gespalder@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 31 Dec 2011 19:12:00 -0600

coke.com/arctichome

Says I am trying to install Adobe Flash Player on an unsupported system.
Funny thing is, I can see plenty of flash videos if I chosose to

(KAM/77813) Sounds like you need to go into your router and open up an IP ad...

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:27:00 -0600


Sounds like you need to go into your router and open up an IP address for your
Wii.

(Rick Jenkins/77812) I'm trying to get a Wii to be recognized by our router. When I t...

Rick Jenkins@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:22:00 -0600


I'm trying to get a Wii to be recognized by our router. When I try to establish
a remote connection, both the Wii and the computer say that the connection is
using an existing IP address and thus the connection cannot be established.
What am I missing that'll allow me to connect the Wii to our home network?

(Nightspawn/77811) have them try using google dns? IIRC 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 but you...

Nightspawn@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 24 Dec 2011 14:04:00 -0600

have them try using google dns? IIRC 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 but you can find it on
googles site.

(JL/77810) Okay, a specific example. This query:

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 19:07:00 -0600

Okay, a specific example. This query:

nslookup socialfixer.com 131.191.7.12

Returns the wrong answer. It's the old IP. Using debugging techniques, can
anyone tell me WHY?! I can't seem to find an answer. The TTL's are not really
long or anything, though when I enable debug I do see this:

    QUESTIONS:
        socialfixer.com, type = AAAA, class = IN
    AUTHORITY RECORDS:
    ->  socialfixer.com
        ttl = 86286 (23 hours 58 mins 6 secs)
        primary name server = ns3533.hostgator.com
        responsible mail addr = dnsadmin.gator1767.hostgator.com
        serial  = 2011103100
        refresh = 86400 (1 day)
        retry   = 7200 (2 hours)
        expire  = 3600000 (41 days 16 hours)
        default TTL = 86400 (1 day)

The 41 days concerns me, though I don't know what it is.

(JL/77809) LOGAN> But that can't trace from the user UP. That is, to figure...

JL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 21 Dec 2011 09:31:00 -0600

LOGAN> But that can't trace from the user UP. That is, to figure out what DNS
servers the user is using and what their responses are.

Everything from the top down looks fine. I need to diagnose local errors, which
means I would need an app that runs on the client.

Teaching people how to use nslookup et al is a pain. A flash app that can run
on the local machine but query the network would be awesome.