Support

(Yarnaddict/126501) other things to know. there may be probono programs at some club...

Yarnaddict@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 28 Jan 2012 07:48:00 -0600

other things to know. there may be probono programs at some clubs like the ymca
or ywca to teach you how to file for divorce. if one thinks ones spouse is
about to jump ship, in some states they will allow that parent to take the
children. one could break it to him or her gently that one knows that the other
is preparing to 'fly away.' one might try before doing that to get some monney
out of the bank in preparation. ive heasrd of husbamds or wives leaving and
taking all the money out of the bank and leaving the other spouse high and dry
with the childdren.  sorry for all the mistakes. some of my keys dont want to
work and the ones that do, work too well.

if he/she desides to leave anyway, apply for emergency temporary custody so he
 or she can't snatch the kids from you. i can't remember very much more than
that at the moment but if he or she gets violent about it there are family
shelters available. if one ends up there it will open a lot of doors for
getting low income housing or section 8 vouchers. remember no matter what to
breathe. i hope things work out. ta for now.

(DC Ten/126500) I also say that it would be best for the "left behind" spouse to...

DC Ten@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:34:00 -0600


I also say that it would be best for the "left behind" spouse to contact an
attorney immediately for advice. It really couldn't hurt for them to talk with
one about options and what should/should not be done. If s/he starts cataloging
what s/he feels are the reasons for divorce and the other partner discovers
this if s/he decides not to leave, it may further damage the relationship which
may be on the mend.

Contact an attorney immediately. The initial consultation is usually free and
the "injured party" will receive better suggestions based on the state law. I
wish the best for the person and children involved.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126499) Child support depends on the state in which you file. You canno...

Wed, 25 Jan 2012 03:10:17 -0600

Child support depends on the state in which you file.  You cannot stop your
spouse from leaving but you may also be able to get alimony out of him/her,
depending on the state and length of time being married.  YOu may be eligible
for 1/2 the retirement savings as well.

Usually you can talk to an attorney for free for about an hour, where you can
find out how much a divorce will cost, what is likely to happen in your state,
how much child support/alimony you can expect, etc.

I strongly encourage you to consult with an attorney.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126498) what should one do if they are sure their spouse, the sole bread...

Tue, 24 Jan 2012 23:50:17 -0600

what should one do if they are sure their spouse, the sole breadwinner, is
planning to abandon the wife and kids and move halfway across the country to be
with someone else who left their spouse? Is there an advantage to being the
first to file for divorce? Filing costs quite a bit, eh, especially when kids
are involved? Should the about-to be abandoned spouse start documenting things
like overheard incriminating conversations, the lack of time the leaving spouse
has spent with the kids since they were born (as in maybe changed 6 diapers,
never gotten them ready for bed, never got them ready for school, doesn't play
with them AT ALL), etc? How much could one expect to get for child support? If
the non-working spouse took a high-paying job in the next few months, would
that jeopardize the child support?

it sounds like a done deal, but how does the left behind spouse keep what they
know a secret and should she let him go through with leaving because he cojuld
always just say "i was never actually going to do it."?

(Mama K/126497) I'll second Vitamin D.

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:05:00 -0600

I'll second Vitamin D.
Also B complex vitamins.
And if you can handle it, St. John's Wort.  (I can't, it gives me vicious
headaches.)

(King Action/126496) Sweet. Thanks.

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 11:18:00 -0600


Sweet. Thanks.

The short of it is that I am working the soul-sucking job of being a security
officer as I save up dough to hopefully lease a space to run my own business
out of. However, there are some days when it's just tough to stay the course.

And, not that there's anything wrong with being a guard, it's just *this*
particular site, etc.

But, I will look into the VitD. Thanks.

(Tempestas/126495) Check and make sure you're getting your Vitamin D. Most people n...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 08:40:00 -0600

Check and make sure you're getting your Vitamin D. Most people need to
supplement. People with low VitD report depression symptoms, so its worth a go
since it might be the easiest and cheapest solution (it'll cost you about 4$ to
try for yourself)

(Steppenwolf/126494) Try this:

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 06:49:00 -0600

Try this:
http://www.placebo.com.au/

(King Action/126493) Is there any sort of natural, over-the-counter, feel-good happy ...

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 12 Jan 2012 05:43:00 -0600


Is there any sort of natural, over-the-counter, feel-good happy pill or what
have you? Like, something for if you're just having a rough patch (at work or
whatever)?

(Yarnaddict/126492) make sure they are licensed, bonded and and on the good list wih...

Yarnaddict@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:52:00 -0600

make sure they are licensed, bonded and and on the good list wiht the better
business bureau. thats my five cents about it.

(Tempestas/126491) There are companies that provide homemaker services, in case cra...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:55:00 -0600

There are companies that provide homemaker services, in case craigslist has you
a bit leery. Its usually marketed to seniors, but obviously they'll work with
all age groups. Just as seniors have varying ability/disability that come with
age, your situation isn't that different... So you'll contract for specific
household duties. You can schedule for a half-day or full-day, once per week,
or more often as needed. The nice thing about using a service, is if your needs
change, you don't have to worry about finding the next person, there's
insurance in place, and household employee taxes are properly handled.

(Mama K/126490) Craigslist, and interview extensively.

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:35:00 -0600

Craigslist, and interview extensively.

(Bodhi Dharma/126489) What's a good way to find a home assistant? I'm having trouble ...

Bodhi Dharma@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 28 Dec 2011 15:34:00 -0600

What's a good way to find a home assistant?  I'm having trouble keeping my
place clean and grocery shopping is a major chore.  But, I don't want to bring
anyone in my place who isn't trustworthy.  How do you handle this?

(Yarnaddict/126488) it depends on what they need as a person. if they are suddenly h...

Yarnaddict@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:59:00 -0600

it depends on what they need as a person. if they are suddenly homeless, help
them find a shelter to move into temporarily while they look for a job or other
help. shelters and dshs or tanf are all listed under community services. if
they have a place but no furniture there should be like, a st. francis house or
go to catholic social services. up here catholic social services is a great
place to start. anywaythats all i can think o at the moment. im kind of tired
but if i come on with more lately when i feel better. ta for now and ihope your
friend will find where to be.

(Tempestas/126487) Welfare office is where I'd head first, actually. Department of ...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:36:00 -0600

Welfare office is where I'd head first, actually. Department of Social
Services. Don't just have him/her apply to the health coverage portion of the
welfare services. Apply to all services and see what falls out. If 100$/month
of foodstamps is released, theoretically, your friend should have 100$/month
free'd up for a therapist. Therapists, which are non-prescribing, offer a cash
rate in Connecticut of $50-$70 per session.

(KAM/126486) Department of Health?

KAM@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:42:00 -0600


Department of Health?

(King Action/126485) So, how does somebody go about getting somebody else help in the...

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 14:28:00 -0600


So, how does somebody go about getting somebody else help in the Philadelphia
area who is unable to afford a therapist?

(King Action/126483) Hey, 'Dreamer' here. I inadvertently posted non-anon a few minut...

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 06:10:00 -0500


Hey, 'Dreamer' here. I inadvertently posted non-anon a few minutes ago when I
was trying to post anon. Not a big deal. I was just trying to remain consistent
with my original posting. When I originally posted, it was just a really bad
day and felt a lot better posting anon.

Nonetheless, thank to those that posted in response. And thanks to those who
pointed out my flub. :)

(Yarnaddict/126481) to the person in post # 126479, i can really relate to what your...

Yarnaddict@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 18 Oct 2011 02:20:00 -0500

to the person in post # 126479, i can really relate to what your saying. there
are occasions that i dream of being whole again and not arthritic or
breathless. but then i wake up and the pain is back, the inability to walk
around or do what i want to do when i want to do it. i can walk for very
limited distances because of pain, but it sometimes about kills me that im
unable to walk a full block without the assistance of a walker anymore. i have
to rebuild my stamina. i think someone told me once its healthy to grieve for
our losses, even physical losses. anyway, just putting out my point of view,
thanks for listening and have a nice day.

(Cenatour/126480) i kind of see that as a positive thing you have in your dreams. ...

Cenatour@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 16 Oct 2011 05:11:00 -0500

i kind of see that as a positive thing you have in your dreams.  The reality is
you are no longer able to have the physical momentum you once did...at least
you can dream it...cherish that.  i miss my grandparents very much since they
died and i prolly dream about them 1-2 a year.  i cant talk to them in reality
but in those dreams i do, and while i know its only a dream, for that brief
moment i hear their voice or see them or whatever and its just....wonderful

(-- anonymous -- <>/126479) How do you folks deal with having dreams in which you have somet...

Sun, 16 Oct 2011 04:00:17 -0500


How do you folks deal with having dreams in which you have something that you
once had but then have to wake up to reality? Or, simply, having dreams which
are way better than your actual less-than-awesome life?

I have a bad back and bad knees which has sort of cut my athletic and fitness
capacity short. This is a large part of who I am/was and have been able to deal
with the gradual losses as they occured. However, I had a dream where I was
chasing somebody. In the dream, the reason I was chasing them was bad (they
stole something or whatever), and I couldn't catch them, but even *in* the
dream I was happy because I was realizing that I was able to run and that my
back and knees didn't hurt and...'WOW! I'M REALLY RUNNING!'

Then, I woke up.

While I say that I have been able to deal with my loss of physical ability, it
has been tough since it's not like I have ever been injured. Stuff
just...started getting defective. So, I started feeling...defective. Or cursed.
Whatever. The point is, having dreams like this which remind me of how awesome
abilities I NO LONGER HAVE are is not fun.

Thanks.

(Karma Police/126478) I know it's difficult for you, because you feel wronged in this ...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:16:00 -0500

I know it's difficult for you, because you feel wronged in this particular
breakup.  And if your ex-gf did cheat on you, that was wrong.  But you are
hurting right now and you are feeling sensitive.  Your way of dealing with that
is to cut off contact with your ex-gf.  Your daughter had a relationship with
her too that was very, very different than yours.  Therefore, her subsequent
feelings about your ex-gf are going to be different.  She still needs this
woman in her life, as a friend, perhaps.  I don't think your daughter is trying
to hurt you - but as you can tell, you really can't control who she decides to
communicate with (especially if her mother tacitly or explicitly approves).
-
Breakups are messy when kids are involved.  Kids can get way more attached to
your significant other than even you are.  Kids also tend to be more forgiving
than adults sometimes.  Instead of seeing this situation as your daughter
"taking sides against you", try to view it from her perspective.  Your daugher,
through no fault of her own, lost someone close to her.  The breakup was
decided (or whas between) you and your ex-gf - daughter got NO SAY in it.  She
misses the ex-gf desperately.  I'm sure she loves you, but when she saw an
opportunity to forgive the ex-gf and have her back in her life, she took it.
-
Maybe she doesn't know how you feel about the ex.  Maybe she thinks that this
is a similar situation to what happened with her mother, and it's not a big
deal for her to visit the ex.  Or maybe she's pissed at you for some reason.  I
don't know, but you'll have to talk to her about it, in a way that is calm and
rational and doesn't blame her or make her feel guilty for wanting to see your
ex-gf, even if you don't.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126477) Kerb here.

Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:00:19 -0500

Kerb here.
I've been a single father for several years, during which time I've dated 2
women. The second left just about a month ago and picked up with a new beau two
days after we called it quits, leading to popular speculation that she was
sowing the seeds of that relationship weeks, maybe months in advance.  She
deliberately stayed away from my daughter and me for months, all the while
claiming love for us, but displaying no willingness to be with us, even though
we lived only 25 minutes apart. Although my daughter knows what the exg did to
us, she still loves her and maintains contact with her. I asked my child to
break off contact with the exg out of respect for me, but that didn't work. Now
my daughter is spending summer in Louisiana with her mother and I hear that the
exg is planning a trip down there to see them. The exg and ex-wife have become
somewhat chummy in recent months, so it's impossible for me to simply cut my
daughter off from the exg.  I've seen text messages from the exg to my
daughter, yet my loving child claims she's had no contact.

I can't think of a single instance in which my child took my side in anything
against anyone. I'm curious to know what would someone have to do to me for her
to take my side. Would someone have to physically beat me to a pulp before she
says "Please don't do that to my Daddy," or even then?

(Karma Police/126476) Mama K> Perhaps you could tell her something like what you wrote...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 13 Jun 2011 08:37:00 -0500

Mama K> Perhaps you could tell her something like what you wrote here?  You
could just be honest with her.
"Dear <Friend>, I know how much you need some friendship and support right now.
I know this, because I've been in your shoes.  I know you've been blaming
yourself and feeling guilty.  I felt the same way when I was in a similar
relationship.  I want to be there for you and be supportive of you, but
listening to you blame yourself and hate yourself is hitting a bit close to
home for me.  I don't blame myself anymore for being a victim of dv.  I don't
blame you either.  I don't think you should blame yourself, because I know you
are not at fault for any of this.  I wish you would talk to a counselor, but
that is a choice you will have to make for yourself.  Counseling helped me and
no one there blamed me for what happened to my relationship.  Please know that
I care about you and I don't want anything bad to happen to you.  I want you to
get out of this relationship and feel like the amazing woman I know you are."
-
Something like that.  My friend was in an abusive relationship as well, and I
wrote something similar to her a long time ago.  She managed to start divorce
proceedings and got a restraining order - but that still didn't stop him from
going after her.  He held her and their children at gunpoint, started a fire
that burned their house down, and shot himself after she was able to get the
kids out of the house.  I know you know how serious this situation is with your
friend, but I think she's still in denial about it.

(Yarnaddict/126475) now this may come off as weird cos im a dv survivor also. your f...

Yarnaddict@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 11 Jun 2011 21:29:00 -0500

now this may come off as weird cos im a dv survivor also. your friend IS
considered a battered wife because hes battering her emotinoally. forgive any
miss spelling or typos im trying to type as fast as im thinking and it aint
working so well. im also kind of reactive tonight so ... o well it happens to
me but... back to the situation y'all are in. she needs to look at it from
outside herself... ask her what she would tell someone else who was in her
situation... tell her to look at it from a different view. and write it out as
though .. or talk it out as if you were the current victem. what would she say
to you if she saw you getting whacked around emotionally... whould she not urge
you to get away from mister crazy? cos hes mister crazy for sure.

im gonna have to knit for some time tonight to consider other things that she
could do. ask her if shes calm when mister crazypants isnt around. and how bad
the anticipation of himj coming home is.. after you ask her these questions
tell her to think about it for a while before she answers... especially about
the anticipation anxiety. anyway thats my two centws.. ta for now

(Mama K/126474) I need some perspective on this one....I'm too close and it hits...

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 11 Jun 2011 19:46:00 -0500

I need some perspective on this one....I'm too close and it hits too close to
home.

A friend is in an abusive marriage.  Her husband has thrown her down the
stairs, hit her, threatened her, threatened their children, has been
threatening to burn down the house then kill himself, screams at her regularly,
all the usual abusive asshole type stuff.  Today he topped himself, chasing her
and their 4 year old around the house with a 2x4 (until he shattered it,
beating it against a wall, creating about 8 holes) and a metal baseball bat
(which he also used to smash the headlights of her car).

The neighbors called the cops when they saw the man wearing nothing but boxers
wielding a baseball bat on the car while threatening to kill everone in the
house (by name), then kill himself, then burn down the house.  She got an
emergency order of protection (has to go to court Monday to get a preliminary
one, then to trial for a real one), and he was cited for simple assault, a
Class 1 Misdemeanor.  He self-committed to a psych hospital, and I believe is
being held for 72 hours as a danger to himself and others.

The 4 year old is safely ensconced with friends in another town.  Their other
child is at Grandma's house and missed all the drama.

My friend is blaming herself for all of it.  Every bit of it.  It's her fault
he went after her.  If she were a better wife, or placated him, he wouldn't
have done it.  If she were a better mother, he wouldn't have felt the need to
threaten the kids.  If she hadn't rented the basement to a friend of theirs,
that friend's and her husband's friendship would still be intact.  (The friend
stepped in between them to protect her from the baseball bat.)  It's not
helping that the nurse she spoke with at the hospital told her that her husband
really needs her support, and she should consider reconciling with her.  Or
that his boss at one job, and his business partner at another are both at the
hospital with him playing "oh, poor you" at him.

It would be one thing if it were "normal" blaming herself.  I could deal with
that, I think.....at least to some extent.  She's doing irrational blaming
herself.  She won't talk to a domestic violence counselor, because they would
blame her.  Obviously the courts think it's her fault too, because otherwise,
they would order him to give her every penny he has.  I don't deal well with
irrational melodrama.

The extra challenge for me is that I'm a DV survivor.  I've been where she is,
and I've felt the guilt and the shame.  I've felt like it was all my fault.  I
never got into everyone else blaming me, though.  And not to the irrational
level of feeling entitled to everything my abuser owned.  I'm fighting
against....not so much flashbacks, as I don't feel like I'm reliving the
experiences.....something more along the lines of emotional flashbacks, I
guess.  Reliving the panic, the fear, the anxiety, the shame, all of that.

So here, denizens o' Support>, is where y'all come in.  How do I help her,
while keeping myself emotionally safe?  I want to help her.  I want to be
supportive.  At the same time, I want to slep her when she gets irrational.
And I want to run away and hide to protect myself from reliving those emotions.
 I saw a professional counselor for several years after my abusive relationship
ended, and generally don't even think about it any more....until all this.

What say you?

(Faunus/126473) BPD is weird. Mental health professionals have a hard time with...

Faunus@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 11 Jun 2011 10:58:00 -0500

BPD is weird.  Mental health professionals have a hard time with it, because
what you see with it is a person who is pretty much always fucking with and
manipulating everyone around them.

My impression is that it's very different from sociopathy.  Sociopaths
come across as smooth and charming, and are very in control.  They may
or may not ever get violent or loud or scary, but they do those things
by choice.  They have very little in the way of actual feelings.

BPD people may use emotions to manipulate people, but those are real
emotions; they're full of emotion and every interaction they have with
everybody is emotionally loaded, positively or negatively, and it's
very difficult to deal with them.

Dealing with a sociopath would usually be pleasant and fun until they
decided to use you to get what they wanted and throw you aside.

Dealing with someone with BPD is a constant nightmare for both of you.

*Both* BPD and sociopathic people can be extremely selfish and hurtful
to people around them, manipulating and using them.  Someone who's out
of control and full of emotion sounds BPD'ish to me.  If they were
coldly manipulative under a smiley happy exterior, that'd be more the
sociopath thing.

ALL JUST AMATEUR PSEUDO-DIAGNOSIS OF COURSE, NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT
PROFESSIONAL.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126472) I'm not the previous poster, but I do have a question about BPD....

Sat, 11 Jun 2011 06:10:18 -0500


I'm not the previous poster, but I do have a question about BPD.  I know
someone with very similar characteristics, yet this behavior only comes out
around certain people, i.e. family members.  Since the person I know is
obviously controlling her behavior carefully, that's not really a sign of BPD,
right?  Aren't they universal?  I ask because all the info I can find lists
behaviors but not around certain people.
-Socio-Wondering

(-- anonymous -- <>/126471) SocioFriend here.

Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:00:18 -0500

SocioFriend here.

I'm trying to not give too many identifying details.  This person is a
roommate/employer.  I provide X hours of a given service in exchange for room
and board.  This person is also allegedly a friend, though has not been very
friendlike lately.  (See original post.)  Part of her screaming at me most
recently has been why I'm not nice to her....my reason given is that she's not
treating me like a friend, she's treating me like an indentured servant whom
she always expects at her beck and call.

(Peccavimus/126470) Faunus> I had the exact same thought.

Peccavimus@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:16:00 -0500

Faunus>  I had the exact same thought.

there are some books on the subject of dealing with those suffering from BPD. 
Go to the psychology section of your local Borders and browse; that'd be my
advice.

(Faunus/126469) When it comes to diagnostic labels, that smells more like "borde...

Faunus@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:45:00 -0500

When it comes to diagnostic labels, that smells more like "borderline
personality disorder" than "sociopath" to this layman.

(Sparky/126468) What Stepp said. It can make a critical difference in how you'd...

Sparky@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:42:00 -0500

What Stepp said.  It can make a critical difference in how you'd go about
negotiating this one, if this person is a roommate or a co-worker for instance.

(Steppenwolf/126467) Though you didn't want to go into them, I don't know that those ...

Steppenwolf@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:53:00 -0500

Though you didn't want to go into them, I don't know that those questions can
be easily answered without knowing why you have to interact with this person.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126466) My google skillz are failing me....what are some good ways to co...

Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:00:17 -0500

My google skillz are failing me....what are some good ways to cope with a
sociopath?  I've about decided that's what this person in my life is.  She
yells, screams, throws things, shows no indication that others' feelings,
needs, or desires are important to her, has temper tantrums when you disagree
with her, picks the lock on the bathroom door if she thinks you're taking too
long and she wants something in there, and sees absolutely nothing wrong with
any of her behaviors.  I am forced to interact with her for a variety of
reasons, which I will not go into.  I am tired of being screamed at, and of
constantly walking on eggshells.  Help?

Call me Sociofriend.

(Tempestas/126465) 1. continue working w/ your dr on whatever the problems are

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 06 Apr 2011 11:47:00 -0500

1. continue working w/ your dr on whatever the problems are
2. If you haven't, get yourself a therapist. You'll have better luck getting an
appt quickly with a non-prescribing therapist rather than waiting 6 weeks or
better for a psychiatrist. You'd only need the psych. if you need a
prescription, but you can get a prescription from any dr, with the advice from
the therapist.
3. Get an appt. with social services and apply for everything, see if any state
assistance can come out of it.
4. Reapply to social services whenever your income changes for the worse, you
may end up re-qualifying.
5. Since you're still at your job, you need to look for social assistance that
does NOT require income verification. This will be church-based foodbanks,
programs like Angel Food Ministries, etc.

Typically, you do need to be pretty destitute to qualify for welfare assistance
programs... But even a homeowner can qualify himself for foodstamps for 6
months. If my memory serves, a CT resident for example, can own a house, have
up to $7k in other assets (vehicle, bank accounts), and still qualify to get
foodstamps. Right now in the pre-destitute phase you're in, there's not much
that's going to prevent you from falling financially in this. So, again, get a
therapist, because you're going to have a lot of emotions to deal with and
you'll need to be talking to someone about it- and it may as well be someone
who might actually be able to help you navigate your situation.

Lastly, you might want to start to prepare for separation from your day job.
Obviously lack of income will be a big problem, but you might have some options
to keep health insurance for yourself. We all know the COBRA is beyond
ridiculously expensive- so you'll want to find an individual policy to buy. I
don't know much about other states, but in CT we have Charter Oak health
plan... This allows CT residents who (a) haven't had health insurance for
6months or more and (b) otherwise don't have access to health insurance to buy
into a group policy. The premiums are cheap and on a sliding scale, so IF the
income is low, a person can qualify for a lower premium.

I know being in pain and depressed, these are the last things you really want
to do for yourself... I hope for your sake you can just plow through and get
what you need.

(Yarnaddict/126464) it depends on your situation, like what state you're in, what ci...

Yarnaddict@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:11:00 -0500

it depends on your situation, like what state you're in, what city, what your
local laws are regarding asking for help, are you alaska native or part
american indian? i know these areas and how to help with them, depending again,
on where you live.

ok a few suggestions that will help you mabye feel safer. i always feel safer
when my refridgerater and freezer are full. its part of that cutting down on
the anxiety thing. so if you (not pointing at anyone in particular so its a
broad termed you) can get to the food banks they also will havec help with
clothing availabie on certain days. if you have to leave yhour job cos its
become so stressful uyou can't stand it you could apply to social serurity. i
dont know thsee all seem like dumb ideas now that i say them.

and so te get further into possibly causing trouble... have you talked to your
shrinkiedink or pastor, a priest or your hair dresser about what you're
stressed about? i talk to ALL my friends, my shrinkiedink, my
counsilor(spelling aaargh! counselor??? - not the lawyer, the one that helps my
shrinkiedink) *cackles gleefully* so. if none of tghat helps borrow someone
else's kids for the day and go have fun! im sorry, i dont mean to make light of
your situation, its just that wihtout more information i dont know which way to
point. im not very good at pointing.. but im pretty good at making others laugh
so thats what i go for when i can. thanks for your time and hve a nice day.
kloi

(-- anonymous -- <>/126463) I now have three days left of vacation. All my sick time is gon...

Tue, 05 Apr 2011 18:20:18 -0500

I now have three days left of vacation.  All my sick time is gone - used up n
dealing with this problem.
I am hoping that my company will allow me to work leave without pay, but I feel
like I'm a hair's breadth from being destitute.  Where can I turn to get help?

(Yarnaddict/126462) hi mister in pain> my name is kloi and i totally understand how ...

Yarnaddict@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 18:31:00 -0500

hi mister in pain> my name is kloi and i totally understand how you feel. first
off get yourself to the family doctor and get that diagnosed. i am not a
doctor and can't tell whether om right or wrong, saying that: from what i read
on here that it sounds like fibromyalgia. but since im not a doctor i am saying
it sounds like it. you might want to look up both fibromyalgia and chronic pain
but know this, there are other things that can cause that kind of pain without
being fibromyalgia so. my thoughts and prayers are with you and, yeah what the
others said too. pain clinics with teh right doctors are wonderful. sorry for
all the extra spaces and stuff. ive been writing and doing book reports so i
keep hitting return before im ready to. if you want to smail me on here, ge
head. or if you need to keep it quiet then keep us all informed in here so we
know you're getting the help you need. if you need social security's number to
start the process its - or well it used to be: 1-800-773 1213. okbye

(Karma Police/126461) Ohhh...sorry, yeah I get it. If you have health insurance, I wo...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 31 Mar 2011 03:41:00 -0500

Ohhh...sorry, yeah I get it.  If you have health insurance, I would recommend
what MoonToad recommends.  Try to get an appointment with your doctor to get on
a pain management program.
If you have a human resources department or a good relationship with your boss,
you might be able to re-arrange your schedule so that you can work from home
sometimes when the pain is unbearable.
Otherwise, I would connect with friends to ask for help with your cleaning and
cooking.  If you have the money, you might want to see if you can get a
one-time cleaning from a professional cleaner, so that you can start over fresh
with a clean house.

(MoonToad/126460) Most people with chronic pain have depression. Having the pain ...

MoonToad@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:23:00 -0500

Most people with chronic pain have depression.  Having the pain fucks up
your brain chemistry, it has nothing to do with being weak mentally.  I would
encourage you to go to a local pain clinic, so they can help you manage your
pain and get you the resources you need right now.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126459) When I say that I don't have any disability (short or long), I m...

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 11:00:18 -0500

When I say that I don't have any disability (short or long), I mean I've got no
disability benefits.  So, whether or not my problem counts as a medical
disabilty doesn't make a difference.

(Karma Police/126458) I'm not sure that your medical issue doesn't qualify as a disabi...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 30 Mar 2011 04:58:00 -0500

I'm not sure that your medical issue doesn't qualify as a disability.  But you
know more about it than I do, so I trust you.  Does your work have any kind of
help for those suffering from depression or pain?  It sounds like, on top of
the physical issues, you might be depressed as well.  This is not at all
unusual.  When my mother was suffering from crippling migraines (several times
a week for years), she became withdrawn and depressed.  It took a twofold
approach before she started to feel better, physically and emotionally.  Even
when her medication started to make her feel physically better, she was still
emotionally in pain.
If there is a friend or a family member who can help you make some
appointments, get your house clean, make some easy meals for you to reheat, or
just get your mind off things, now's the time to give them a call.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126457) I'm praying for you. Pain sucks. Feeling like you have no dignit...

Wed, 30 Mar 2011 04:40:19 -0500

I'm praying for you. Pain sucks. Feeling like you have no dignity amplifies
that. I hope you get relief soon.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126456) I'm at about the lowest I've been in a long time. I've been dea...

Tue, 29 Mar 2011 14:20:18 -0500

I'm at about the lowest I've been in a long time.  I've been dealing with a
medical problem which causes -intense- pain, muscle atrophication, and nerve
deadeing.  But I don't have any disability (short or long).  I've been going to
work with this problem for a couple of months now.
Today, walking out of work, I finally broke.  I started crying.  I'm a 42 year
old man and I'm crying in front of my colleagues.  To make things worse, I'm
still crying when I get to my apartment and a neighbor sees me.
I've had complete strangers at work come up and offer to tie my shoes because I
can't fucking reach my shoelaces.  I haven't been able to clean my apartment in
months.
Now, I've got nothing - no dignity left.

(Karma Police/126455) Almost single>

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 09:13:00 -0500

Almost single>
I've never been divorced, but I've had many close friends and family members
who I've watched navigate this process with children.  I'm not going to pretend
that there's an easy answer to your problems or a solution that works well for
everyone.  Every case is different.  There are more grey areas that you will
face ahead than you've probably ever faced before in your life.
Things that I've seen that will help:
1) See a lawyer as soon as you can.  Get your own lawyer, don't share one with
your wife.  Maybe try to find one that is knowledgeable about father's rights
in your state.
2) If you haven't already, separate your finances from hers.  Separate the
legal stuff too - designate new benficiaries on your insurance and other
financial documents, if you have a will or a living will - make the necessary
changes.
3) See a counselor or therapist.  Try to get your soon-to-be-ex to go with you
in order to find a way to work together as co-parents.  If she won't go, see
one on your own.  Your friends and family will thank you, trust me.
4) Tell your friends and family in order of importance and need-to-know basis.
It's hard, but try to be as neutral as possible.
5) Don't think about dating right now.  Please try to get your life together
and get a good schedule worked out before you throw yourself into the dating
scene.  Take this from a woman who has made the mistake of dating recently
divorced men in the past who SWORE that they were emotionally ready to date
again.  Please know yourself and don't get involved in someone's life until the
drama has mellowed out in yours.

(Moab/126454) Almost Single>

Moab@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:50:00 -0500

Almost Single>
Feel free to mail if you want to chat.  I went through a pretty rough divorce
(meaning: loved my wife and didn't expect or want her to leave) and while there
wasn't children involved it was difficult in other ways (father dying at the
same time, change of careers while in school full-time).

Anyway, if you want to chat, vent or whatever, give a shout.

(Mama K/126453) Almost single> First, my condolences on the loss of your marria...

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 04 Sep 2010 02:18:00 -0500

Almost single>  First, my condolences on the loss of your marriage.  It is a
loss, and you need to take time to grieve.  Don't worry about dating or any of
that nonsense.  First you have to find your you again.  You've been part of a
couple, a 'we' for some 16 years.  You need to take some time to figure out who
you, as a single man, are, what you want, what your priorities are, etc.

IMO, your first priority has to be taking care of yourself.  If you don't take
care of yourself, you will find yourself in no condition to take care of anyone
else.  Yes, your son should absolutely be high on your priority list.  But
unless you look out for yourself first, you won't be able to look out for him.

You have to decide what level of "friendship" you're comfortable with, with
your wife.  With my first husband, we've had absolutely no contact since the
day he violated a restraining order then hopped a bus across the country.  And
for that, I'm extremely grateful.  My second husband is a friend.  We don't
talk daily.  We sometimes vent to each other about family stuff.  Ours is a bit
different situation, as neither of us have custody of our kids.  They live with
my parents, and are healthy, happy, and well cared for there.

But it took some time for us to get to this point where we're friends.  We
first had to get past the pain and the loss of our marriage, and work past the
pain we'd inflicted on each other.  It wasn't always easy.  There were still
huge fights, and months on end where we wouldn't talk at all.

The kid swapping can be as easy or as hard as the two of you make it.  Hubby 2
and I flew back and forth across the country several times a year to swap the
kids back and forth (before they went to live with my parents, obviously),
stayed at each other's places, snuggled and more, treated it like a vacation.
He and his first wife, a whole 'nother story.  They got to the point that kid
swapping could only occur in the presence of a law enforcement officer, or
completely be done by third parties (friends or relatives).

As far as any concessions she may ask (picking up your son on her day, advances
on support, etc.)....that's something you are going to have to decide for
yourself what you're comfortable with.  And then make it absolutely crystal
clear to her.  And put it in writing.  Then stick to it.  Easier said than
done, I know.  Especially if she choses to try to use your son as a weapon.

Definitely see a lawyer as soon as possible.  You may want to do some research
to find one who specializes in fathers' rights.  And you might want to consider
some short term counselling as well.

Or you can drop by my Mail>.....it's always open if you need to talk.  *hugs*

(Bo Peep/126452) I read too. Best of luck. I cannot really comment since I have ...

Bo Peep@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:32:00 -0500

I read too. Best of luck.  I cannot really comment since I have never been in
those shoes.

(Mama K/126451) ALmost single> I don't have the time right this second to reply...

Mama K@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:48:00 -0500

ALmost single>  I don't have the time right this second to reply fully....I
just wanted you to know that someone read that far.  =)  *offers hugs*  I'll
whip up a longer reply when I get home from work tonight.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126450) Oh, you can call me "almost single"

Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:10:20 -0500

Oh, you can call me "almost single"

(-- anonymous -- <>/126449) Well, my wife just told me that she wants a divorce. Now, we ha...

Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:10:19 -0500

Well, my wife just told me that she wants a divorce.  Now, we have been
seperated for 3 years, but for the last 6-8 months have been talking about
reconciling.

The funny thing is, I'm not even sure how I feel about it.  We have a son, and
we've been married for 11 years, but he's only 6, so he doesn't even really
remember when we lived together.

During the separation, we spent a pretty fair amount of time together, so I saw
my son probably 5 days a week (he stays with me 3-4 days).  I'm definatly not
keen on the idea of not getting to see him for 4-5 days in a row twice a month.
But at the same time, if I'm not married to her, and we aren't contemplating a
reconciliation, I don't know that I really want to be around her more than
necessary for kid swapping and planning.

I think there are still some feelings for her, but she's done a pretty good job
of either killing them, or forcing me to lock them pretty deep down to protect
myself. (Affair, longterm)  So to be really honest, it's possible that what
feelings I can find are more a love of habit and comfort rather than her.

I do know that I'm afraid of being lonely.  I have absolutly no idea how to
date.  (not that I have an immediate interest)  She was my first and last date
at 17, married at 22.  I do at least know what I would go looking for this time
around (and what to stay the hell away from).  But the idea of it is daunting.


To be honest, I know this is rambling, I hven't really had time to put anything
together coherently.  There are a couple of areas I could use suggestions in
though.

The separation, and the divorce will defintaly be civil.  But seems to feel
that my past patience and consideration particularly with money and our son
will continue and that we can continue to be friends.  (ie: Sure I can leave
work early to pick up Mason on your day; sure I can give you some of the
support money early to help cover your bills; sure you can call me for support
when work is tough and you feel overwhelmed)  But the thoughts I have when
considering such things now are:

Fuck No I'm not taking time off work on a day when you have our son to take him
to a doctors appointment because you didn't realize you had a meeting when you
scheduled it.

Fuck no I'm not going to sit here and listen to you bitch about being exhausted
from work because you insist on letting the boy sleep in your bed and he keeps
you up at night.  Deal with it yourself.

I put myself out for family and close friends.  You've decided you no longer
wish to be my spouse, I'm not going to continue devoting energy to your
wellbeing.

Obviously the problem with this is that these sorts of things impact my son as
well, so that always has to be a consideration.  But I know she's going to end
up using the fact that it's our son to elicit my cooperation.

Problem is that I don't want to be as much a doormat as I was, but I don't want
to sour our relationship to the point that we end up contentious about the kid.
And I know, even if she doesn't, that she doesn't currently have the resources
to effectivly manage her life.  (I'm sure she'll manage eventually)

I will admit a certain perverse joy in watching her struggle (and fail) in
managing some of the aspects of her life that she long criticized me for
failing to manage well.  Particularly in the area of money.  After years of her
bitching at me whenever a bill was paid late (either because I forgot, or was
stretching money), she has overdrawn to the tune of like $500 in fees in the
last year and hasn't paid her student loan in 4 months.  But then suggests that
we go out for dinner after our son's school open house.

Anyway, to those few who actually managed to read this far, I apologize, I know
it was rambling and hard to follow.  But I needed to discuss it with someone
and my normal outlet is no longer availible.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126448) Tired of Fighting> Fighting is exhausting, I hope you get a repr...

Fri, 20 Aug 2010 08:20:18 -0500

Tired of Fighting> Fighting is exhausting, I hope you get a reprieve soon. If
you can, get some face time with your NA sponsor or from your
priest/preacher/pastor at church, you deserve to share this burden and that's
what they are here for. It may not feel like much, but I'm thinking of you.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126447) tired of fighting -

Thu, 19 Aug 2010 21:50:17 -0500

tired of fighting -
I have fought so many battles in my life. I don't know how much fight I have
left in me. I just have trouble hanging in there. I am alone in this world
right now in my life and what a fucked up world it is. I have fought through
beint molested.... still fighting that battle... I have fought through my son
dieing at birth... I am fighting through a divorce and being told I am a
horrible father.. Yes I have my faults I have had issues with gambling so I
went to GA and got myself banned at all the casinos within driving distance. I
got hooked on pain meds due to migraines. I went to NA which helped. But the
soon to be ex slept around over 20 guys is in a relationship and trying to put
him in the dad role. I shell out my 1000+ a month in child support even though
it has not gone through the courts yet. I am an ATM after a 10 year
relationship and almost 7 years of marriage before we seperated. And before I
moved out she was fucking guys with me and the kids in the house. But the
seperation is all my fault. I go to my therapist on a regular basis and on
medication.. its just tough hanging in there. It's hard to be the whipping
post of the ex. There is no one close by any more that I can lean on she has
tainted them all. and everyone else is so far away. Work dulls the pain its a
distraction. Until I realize I am alone in that building surrounded by people
with lives and families. I go home to an appartment and am all alone. I have
nothing left that is not been taken from me or being taken from me. I struggle
though I just dont know how. I don't know when I will crack. I know I am about
to crack. I just don't know how I will crack. I go to church and sit and pray.
Yet my faith fades. My hope is fading as well. I keep searching though for that
light. That little glimmer of hope. Yet it hides in the shadows. I know I can
not continue down this path because it is dangerous. I don't know if this is
the beginng of the end or a new beginning. If it is a new beginning. I need to
find that light fast. I know I am tredding on thin ice.Yet I ramble on.

(DC Ten/126446) I wanted to thank you all for your support during this time, and...

DC Ten@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 11 Jun 2010 22:24:00 -0500


I wanted to thank you all for your support during this time, and wanted to give
you all some udate here. For some reason I'm having trouble with spontaneous
logoffs so we'll see how much I have the patience for and I'm not used to C&P
every paragraph I write.

I guess you would say that the miscarriage part of this is probably over, but
not by a long shot physically. My heart is still grieving for this baby, who
wasn't discovered until 8 weeks but stopped developing at 5w. We've been trying
for two years now, including fertility treatments last fall, so it's an
additional heartache that we had it, but not for long.

There will be a memorial service for Scott on Tuesday at 3PM (Central, if that
matters). Since Scott's mom didn't want a service, I guess that was assumed of
Scott, too. Scott's family did open up his home last week but I guess that was
the most as far as a memorial went. And not all people were invited either,
these were only for people who were from the company or had close ties (namely
spouses and children - OK< one child, ours, who was well behaved. :)

The memorial is being planned by the person who was least thought of by the
family, Scott's GF of 9 years, Secora. She's the one that my heart goes out to
most because she was treated as person non grata by the family, which made me
feel really badly fof her. I know she must be hurting so badly at the moment.
She had been widowed before she met Scott. My hurt aches for her.

Steve and I went for a drive tonight and it must have been leftover pregnancy
hormones combined with plain grief, we talked mostly about Scott about 3 hours.
I know he is hurting, too. I asked him the hypothetical question of "Why is
this affecting me so much?" He said, "Well, he was an extension of family. Plus
the aviation factor doesn't help." I've been in aviation my whole life. I've
known people to die in an incident, but never this close. I mean, you have a
greater chance of getting killed in an accident on the way to the airport than
you do in the air, both privately and commercially. But when YOU'RE that ONE
(or two in this crash), it doesn't matter if an A-380 (the new-ish double
decker by Airbus) went down. The person you cared for is gone. Poor analogy,
forgive me. I'm still a mess.

The initial NTSB report came out about the crash. It was so difficult reading
about your friend's final seconds on Earth, and if he had just done one thing,
he'd be alive today..But the final report is not in yet, and we just don't know
if he could have been able to do that one action. It looked like he tried to
turn back to the airport after the engine stalled. If the engine is stalled you
have no power. Once you start a turn, you don't have power to get out of that
turn and he hit wing first. If he had maintained "straight and level", he and
his mom might have sustained serious injuries, he may not have anything left
reusable on the plane, but he would have been alive. But for now, we just don't
know what happened.

My heart just aches and I'm still crying so much. If I'm in this shape, I'm not
sure if I'll go to the memorial service.... who's knows at anything at this
point.

Thank you for reading.  Your thoughts and prayers and appreciated.

(Yarnaddict/126445) hi and im sorry for your loss, dc ten. grief hits us all differe...

Yarnaddict@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 19:11:00 -0500

hi and im sorry for your loss, dc ten. grief hits us all differently. so let
yourself grieve. *offers comforts*

(Heavenslice/126444) DC Ten> My heart goes out to you. Death is never easy, but you a...

Heavenslice@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:49:00 -0500

DC Ten> My heart goes out to you. Death is never easy, but you also have
hormones raging through you during this time that don't help the situation.
Remember not to be hard on yourself for having feelings. You're in my thoughts.

(Karma Police/126443) A death of a friend or acquaintance can affect people strongly s...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:46:00 -0500

A death of a friend or acquaintance can affect people strongly sometimes.  I
think a lot of how you feel about this has to do with where you are in your
life right now.  You have a lot going on, plain and simple.  You are in the
thick of dealing with your own miscarriage.  Feelings are transferrable.  And I
hate it when people blame a pregnant woman's emotions on hormones, but I'm
pretty sure those are at play here too.
Let yourself feel the way you feel.  It's valid.  You are grieving for a lot
right now.

(DC Ten/126442) A few days ago I had posted about the private plane crash that k...

DC Ten@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 04 Jun 2010 15:26:00 -0500


A few days ago I had posted about the private plane crash that killed 2 people,
Steve's boss and his mother. The family is having a private cremation for the
family, but Scott's home is being opened up for a reception for FlightSafety
people. Physically I feel sick with the baby (who has not passed), but I am
going to this reception to support my husband and for myself.

Question: Why has Scott's death affected me so much? We met a few times
socially and had a good time, but it's not like I sat at the same cube with him
for 11 years (cubes are two to a person). I can think back in my mind about
people I've socialized with and whom ended up dying under tragic circumstances,
but Scott's death has really hit me hard. All three of us are heavily into
aviation, maybe that's it, but doesn't really explain it. *sigh* I'm just a
mess.

(King Action/126441) Thanks all.

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:55:00 -0500


Thanks all.

I think I've received some sound advice in here. I think, at best, I'll take
these suggestions, and at worst, I'll be *veeery* selective in approaching the
subject... and in doses.

(Karma Police/126440) I'd say, give it one shot. Lay out how you feel, how it's affec...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:49:00 -0500

I'd say, give it one shot.  Lay out how you feel, how it's affecting your
relationship with her, and how you observe it affecting her son.  Tell her you
care about her and the only reason you're saying this is because you want what
she wants - for her son to be a grown up.  Then back off entirely.  Let her
take some time to digest what you've said.  If she takes some of your advice,
or at the very least thanks you, then I'd say continue the relationship.  If
she backs away from you, give her space.

(MoonToad/126439) Maybe the next time she brings up how he has no direction and is...

MoonToad@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 15:16:00 -0500

Maybe the next time she brings up how he has no direction and isn't growing
into an adult, bring up those four points.  Ask her what she considers and
adult to be, add a few things you consider an adult to be if she doesn't bring
up any of your points.  Then say to her, if you want him to have direction,
he's going to have a need to have direction, and she has to create that need by
not doing it all for him, so he needs to work and pay his bills and rent.  And
he needs to respect her while doing that all, so he should move into the
bedroom and treat the livingroom as a shared space.

(King Action/126438) Tempestas> Thanks for that well-formed advice. That's what I nee...

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 13:29:00 -0500


Tempestas> Thanks for that well-formed advice. That's what I need to hear.

At this point, I've taken to simply distancing myself from her because the
situation is so awkward and I'm always biting my tongue (ie: the son has his
own room, but he lives in the living room - LITERALLY- playing video games and
sleeping, which means that any time I come over, her and I are quarantined to
the bedroom, which is a lot smaller and TV-less.)

She talks about how he has no direction and is not growing into an adult, but:

-she pays his bills

-he stays there free

-he has no job

-he has his own room -- which she cleaned for him after having moved half of
his stuff there... which she in turn sorted through to help discard any trash-
- but he has free reign of the living room. I mean, he eats, sleeps, and lives
in the living room 24/7.

-he recently asked if he could have a friend come for a visit... which means
that the friend will now be occupying the living room while the son goes to
what is essentially his sapre bedroom.

She *removed* him from his grandparents because they were always giving him
money and gifts and what not and not helping him to grow. So, when I come over
and witness all of the above, on top of having to stay in the bedroom and us
essentially having less time together because she'll of course need
parent/child time, it's aggravating.

As a friend, I'd like to help her achieve her goal(s). However, that I can't
have an effect on such without seeming to overstep my bounds just causes me to
retreat to my own apartment and wish her the best.

(Tempestas/126437) If your only goal is to spend more time with your friend, then y...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 13:06:00 -0500

If your only goal is to spend more time with your friend, then you need to
focus on this relationship. I really think you're trying to split hairs, "I
don't want to tell you how to raise the kid, BUT you're doing blahblahblah" is
a horrible type of conversation to have.

Rather, tell her how happy you are to see her developing a new relationship
with her kid, offer to be her sounding board, and in the same conversation tell
her you miss the friendship you had before she started working so hard on her
relationship with her son. Ask her if she feels the same way, if there's a way
you two can hang out more, maybe do different activities together (moms of 19
year olds are often free at odd hours, for a while I was meeting my gf for
coffee before work in the morning because there really was no other time in her
day to hang out). Its a more passive approach I think it will also open her up
to more of a conversation rather than a defensive (if she's even open to a
conversation with you about her kid- she might not be, some people don't
involve non-family in family issues)

(King Action/126436) "Its about HOW you communicate with your friend and being a good...

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:48:00 -0500


"Its about HOW you communicate with your friend and being a good enough friend
to accept the fact that they might not accept your suggestions."

Yes. I perfectly agree.

However, I'm not trying to tell her *how* to raise her kids. I'm trying to get
her to realize how the method she chooses is only mimicing what she says she
*doesn't* want to occur at granny's.

Fictional scenario:

-You're a health nut. Your friend -- while not a health nut -- does okay. One
day, they find out that they are at risk for cancer due to radiation exposure
at work. They decide to quit their job and take up smoking instead. You ask
them why'd they quit their job, and they respond "Because I don't want to get
cancer. *puff* *puff*."

Now, in that situation, I'm not trying to tell them 'smoking is bad for you,
you should be exercising, McDonalds is the devil, go jogging'. But, it's enough
that what you're doing is unhealthy, that you do it on *top* of being
paradoxical is a bit much for me. Then, add to that that I can't stand
cigarette smoke...

I'm only going by the facts that are present. I'm not judging the person. I'm
making observations how current actions don't match stated goals and how said
actions also affect me (and invariably us).

(Tempestas/126435) If you want to talk to your friend about how her doting is affec...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:23:00 -0500

If you want to talk to your friend about how her doting is affecting your
relationshp with her, that's pretty safe.

If you want to talk to your friend about how she should manage her life- That
could be a big mistake. Unsolicited advice, even if its correct and with all
helpful intent, is still unsolicited. She's an adult making (what she feels)
are the best decisions for herself and her son. You, as a friend, don't get to
interfere with that.

My mom lost a friend she's had for over 30 years because she couldn't keep her
mouth shut about how her friend is managing certain relationships in her life.
The past couple years the friendship was so strained with arguments until the
friendship basically ended (they naturally share common friends, so they're
cordial to eachother, but that's it). Her gf has been married for almost 30
years and has had a bf on the side for almost 20 years. Her gf is also failing
to give a good motherly kick to her kids. My mom wasn't wrong in her opinions.
I share them. She lost her friendship because she gave unsolicited advice and
didn't communicate well or respectfully with her friend. I've maintained a
relationship with her (former) best friend, the woman was almost like a aunt to
me, now that I'm an adult she's more like a cousin or sister in our
relationship.

She and I talk, but I don't overstep my bounds. I don't get to tell my friends
how to raise their kids. If she asks, I'll give her my input. If she's bitching
about the kid, I'll ask permission before I offer any suggestions about how to
handle the situation. etc. Its about HOW you communicate with your friend and
being a good enough friend to accept the fact that they might not accept your
suggestions.

(King Action/126434) "You mean what if your friend doesn't obey you and do as you dem...

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:14:00 -0500


"You mean what if your friend doesn't obey you and do as you demand?"

Huh. Three posts in. Took longer than I thought.

For anyone else> If decisions that a friend makes affects your relationship
with them for whatever reason (reduced time, ethical concerns, differences in
ideals), do you:

-wave goodbye to the friendship

-try to 'get them to see the light'

-suck it up

(Faunus/126433) You mean what if your friend doesn't obey you and do as you dema...

Faunus@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:09:00 -0500

You mean what if your friend doesn't obey you and do as you demand?

Obviously you can't have a friend who doesn't obey you.  You know what's best
for her, she doesn't.  What kind of a friend is she if she doesn't acquiesce to
your demands?  What kind of a friend is she if she doesn't let you tell her
what is good for her, because she can't see it herself?

You've got to say goodbye to the friendship.  Nobody could be friends with an
unreasonable person like that.

(King Action/126432) Faunus> But, what if saying it once doesn't work? Like, this is ...

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:07:00 -0500


Faunus> But, what if saying it once doesn't work? Like, this is affecting our
capacity to be friends. If I drop it forever and nothing changes for the
better, our friendship is going to (continue) going down the tubes.

(Faunus/126431) "-How much, as a friend, am I supposed to try to 'smack some sen...

Faunus@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:03:00 -0500

"-How much, as a friend, am I supposed to try to 'smack some sense' into my
friend?"

Exactly once.  Say what you want to say, and then if she isn't interested in
what you're trying to tell her, drop it, forever.

(Mean Mr Mustard/126430) -Does kissing your sleeping 19-year old son on the forehead 'goo...

Mean Mr Mustard@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 11:50:00 -0500


-Does kissing your sleeping 19-year old son on the forehead 'goodbye' count as
"babying"?

Not in and of itself.

(King Action/126429) -I have a friend who has a son (19).

King Action@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Jun 2010 11:04:00 -0500


-I have a friend who has a son (19).

-She recently moved him back into her home to help him get a sense of direction
and to help him grow from an underdeveloped child into a responsible man.
Supposedly, grandparents were babying him.

-I see her -- while not doing the *exact* same things she says the grandparents
were doing -- also babying him.

-As a friend, I would like to help her realize how her actions may not be
helping her reach her objective (of helping him grow ).

***

Based on the above, I have two questions:

-How much, as a friend, am I supposed to try to 'smack some sense' into my
friend? I'm not belligerent, but she is completely blind to her actions and
only views her actions separately, instead of as part of a collective issue.

This current issue (how she dotes on him), affects our friendship as she has to
sacrifice time and comfort from our friendship in order to maintain this new
and seemingly counter-productive situation with her son.

It'd be like if you had a friend who said they couldn't hang out as much
because they needed to save their money to buy a new car that's more eco-
friendly; however, they tell you that they're buying a Hummer; you try to tell
them that that's not 'eco-friendly'; they get a Hummer anyway, and now they
have to take a second job in order to afford all of the other costs associated
with it, so you two will be spending even less time together. I imagine that
would tick you off as a friend.

-Does kissing your sleeping 19-year old son on the forehead 'goodbye' count as
"babying"?

(Morning Sun/126428) DC Ten> I am so sorry for the double whammy. I dont think that...

Morning Sun@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 31 May 2010 13:23:00 -0500

DC Ten>  I am so sorry for the double whammy.  I dont think that there is
really anyway to move past it the grief besides time and tribute.  Maybe if you
can find a special way for your husband and yourself to honor his boss's memory
than you will be able to help yourself heal.

(DC Ten/126427) I'm not sure why I'm writing this, maybe it's for catharsis, I r...

DC Ten@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 30 May 2010 21:00:00 -0500



I'm not sure why I'm writing this, maybe it's for catharsis, I really don't
know, but due to the nature of the investigation, there's no where else on the
'Net I can write about this. If you are my friend, this may give a little
reason why I've been so quiet lately.

This first part might be TMI for most people as it discussing miscarriage. If
you aren't comfortable reading about it, please skip to the next paragraph.

This first item is not related to the main item, but is still incredibly
hurtful, and it all happened in the same week. Late last week I had thought
that I could have been pregnant, I had gone to the doctor, and low and behold,
I was. My husband and I were overjoyed. They wanted me to come back on Tuesday
for a dating ultrasound. The news was not good. Long story short, I should have
been 8 weeks pregnant. The baby stopped developing at 5 weeks. So, now I'm
waiting for a miscarriage.

My husband's boss was a really great guy. He was the one who announced to the
company that our baby had been born in 2007, we had been to his house a few
times, he had taken us out to lunch shortly after my husband and I got married,
he gave us some really nice furniture because he was downsizing, just an
all-around nice guy. He worked with my husbandd in the same cube for 11 years,
ever since Steve first got on with the company. He said to my husband, "Have a
great holiday weekend!" Steve said, "Yeah same to you, man.. have a great one
and see you Tuesday." Tuesday will never arrive for him.

Late last night, our neighbor who is a manager for the same company, left a
rather subdued message on our answering machine, all he said was he needed to
talk with Steve that evening. Well, we made contact and our neighbor came over.
This guy appeared to be in shock when he came to our door. I thought he just
had business to talk with Steve and I left them alone and went to our bedroom.
A few minutes later, Steve came into the room and said, "You know that there
was a plane crash at Airman Acres (a small grass strip centered around a
residential airpark). Honey, [Steve's boss] and his mom were in that plane.
They're both dead. My jaw dropped and I felt my blood go cold, and I got dizzy
all in one second. Not only were we going to lose a baby, but now our friend
had died in a gruesome accident. You can get the details of what happened here.

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/2-killed-in-plane-crash-near-Collinsvil
le-ews-original-kjrh-20100529

When your live centers around aviation, it's extremely heartbreaking. I'm third
generation pilot (still working on it). Our friend had been flying for many
years, and we will only know what really happpened when the FAA/NTSB makes up
their final report. All we have are hypothesis.

We drove out to the crash scene today, the cockpit is totally gone. Beyong
recognition of what anything is. The news reports said that he and his mom died
on impact and I see why. The plane's wing hit the ground first, spun the plane
around, and the crew cabin exploded immediately. If internal injuries didn't
kill them, the first would have. The news reports they were dead on impact. The
tail is fine, one of the wings is fine, but the crew cabin is totally burned
out.

It really just started to "be real" for my husband and I. We both cried and
held each other for several minutes, and all we could say is "Oh God, Oh God,
WHY?!" We stopped holding each other when we saw a man approach. He allowed us
to get beyond the barbwire fence and as long as we stayed out of the
investigation tape, we could be there for a few minutes. I took every
conceivable picture I could. After a few minutes of talking with locals, we had
to go home. Still, both Steve and I are in a daze, and in absolute shock. Going
up to the accident site hurt and helped. It was hard seeing where our friend
died, but it all became real to us that this had happened.

I'm not sure why but Steve wanted to remove all the pics from the cam
immediately. We were warned by someone up there to not let those pics get out.
The way he said it he sounded angry with Steve and I, although he was the one
who helped up get through the barbed wire to get to the plane. So I have no
idea why. We were being respectful and told him we were friends with the pilot.
I apologized so profusely but thanked him for letting us see the plane.

My husband has these pics on the computer in the "protected area' and he says
that he's thinking of deleting them. I told him that keep there were they were
and don't delete them until he's talked with me.

I know I've written too much but this has beem a shitty week all around. Sorry
I haven't been able to identify by name the pilot but there's still an
investigation going on, they can't release his name because he's not been
positively ID'd. The ME is waiting on dental records for positive ID. But we
know beyond a shadow of a doubt that's him.

One of the saddest things we saw today was when we were driving by the hangar,
and we saw his beloved Porsche that he used to drive up there on Saturday. Just
extremely sad this whole week, the miscarriage was bad enough, but to have our
friend killed... I just have no words. He did pass away doing what he did best,
but it doesn't help those who are left and who are mourning his life.

I can't say this is one of the weeks of our lives, because undoubtedly
something will come along to make it even worse. And we are so sad enough. I'm
crying again, can't keep going, but I passed on what to say for now, but I may
need to post again soon. Thank you for your suggestions on getting us through
this tragedy.

(SilverEdge/126426) Bipolar Bear> That is very encouraging. I know of a couple peop...

SilverEdge@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 11:57:00 -0500

Bipolar Bear> That is very encouraging.  I know of a couple people that have
done well on it (myself included).  Keep on it and keep that kind of
'mental check' going when you do have the 'angry times'.  It helps to be able
to have that pause, and get a frigging grip.  :D

(-- anonymous -- <>/126425) Bipolar Bear here.

Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:40:19 -0500

Bipolar Bear here.

Saw the doc again.  She confirmed she was indeed treating me for
bipolar; she's apparently cagey about telling someone right away that
that's what she's doing because a lot of people think of "bipolar" as
an "extreme" diagnosis (based on stereotypes about Bipolar I), and she
doesn't want to freak people out the first time they see her.

I've had some ups and downs but overall I think the Lamictal is doing
me a hell of a lot of good.  Angry times still happen but they're
getting very rare, and when it starts happening I can catch myself and
say "people aren't really doing things to piss me off, that's a
symptom, that's inside me" and that helps.

Now that I'm *on* the Lamictal, i'm going *off* antidepressants, one
at a time, carefully.  (I was on two, before, wellbutrin and effexor,
the latter being itself having replaced the very similar pristiq).

It's been kind of a rough week going off effexor but it's getting better.

The remarkable thing is that suddenly after a long time I'm able to
engage myself in creative, artistic pursuits I used to, years ago, but
had ceased to have the will to do anymore.

That's really really cool.

I think this is a good thing.  I think there's something to this
Bipolar II diagnosis.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126424) Bipolar bear> I would highly suggest talking to the doctor. Whe...

Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:10:17 -0500

Bipolar bear> I would highly suggest talking to the doctor.  When someone
precribes something for you always ask what it will help with.  I would never
try and figure out what the doctor diagnosis me with I would flat out ask him
or her.  I think people are forgetting that being depressed it is a mood
disorder since it does effect your moods.  Lamictal does help with depression.
It isn't an anti-depressant but it does help with moods.

I am bipolar and I am more depressed than anything and I was misdiagnosis for a
while of just being depressed.   Being diagnosis with depression was the first
step towards getting help with the bipolar.

I am very good at asking my doctor questions because I want to know what is
going on with  me.  If he didn't answer my questions I'd find a new one. I'm
lucky that my doctor is very good at answering my questions.

Hang in there ok.

Also Bipolar

(Zelie St Pierre/126423) WORF> When I've been sleep deprived, I usually have more of a g...

Zelie St Pierre@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 09 Mar 2010 08:55:00 -0600

WORF>  When I've been sleep deprived, I usually have more of a general
malaise--the brain zaps are a much more specific "symptom".  I used to describe
it to my husband as a mini-seizure.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126422) this is rella,

Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:40:17 -0600

this is rella,

im really frustrated at the moment with my physical thihngs that are going on.
i feel put upon cos im having gall bladder problems or those keep coming up
right now and i can't afford to be sick at the moment. i have too manyu things
to finish and its frustrating the hell out of me. so here i am whining when
other people have itw orse.. im just frustrated. thank you for listening.

(WORF/126421) The way you describe it, it sounds exactly like what one experie...

WORF@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:02:00 -0600


The way you describe it, it sounds exactly like what one experiences from sleep
deprivation.

(Zelie St Pierre/126420) Effexor has a very short half-life (4 hours and 11 hours for the...

Zelie St Pierre@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:05:00 -0600

Effexor has a very short half-life (4 hours and 11 hours for the drug and its
active metabolite).  So it's easy to go into "withdrawal" from it, even by
missing say 2 doses.

With Effexor as with many SSRIs with short half-lives, some people experience a
withdrawal syndrome that includes these brain zaps and other withdrawal
symptoms.  I guess it's called SSRI discontinuation syndrome, and there's
something on Wikipedia about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSRI_discontinuation_syndrome

It's kind of a weird dizziness feeling when you turn your head, like your eyes
become disconnected from what your brain is asking them to do somehow.  That's
how it feels for me anyway.

But not everyone will experience it, and if you take your meds on time and,
when you decide to get off of them, do it slowly and with your doctor's
guidance, it's not a big deal.  Just feels bizarre.

(Indigo/126419) I haven't been on ISCA much, so pardon me if this was recently e...

Indigo@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 22:15:00 -0600

I haven't been on ISCA much, so pardon me if this was recently explained. What
do you mean by "brain zaps"? I have been prescribed Effexor, but haven't filled
it yet because I am still breastfeeding...

(Zelie St Pierre/126418) Zappy> Wow, what dose were you on? I had brain zaps from tryin...

Zelie St Pierre@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 08:52:00 -0600

Zappy>  Wow, what dose were you on?  I had brain zaps from trying to get off as
little as 50 mg per day; I can't imagine what it would be like if I was on like
300 or something (which is not an unheard-of dose)!

(-- anonymous -- <>/126417) I agree about Effexor. Even though it's supposed to take a whil...

Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:50:17 -0600

I agree about Effexor.  Even though it's supposed to take a while to take
effect, it helped me the FIRST day I took it.   But getting off it was hard
also.  Brain Zaps are freaking scary.   I'd never take that high of dose again,
getting off it was dangerous.  Nothing else really helped.  Call me zappy if u
wish.

(Zelie St Pierre/126416) To add another opinion here, I have taken Celexa, Lexapro, Proza...

Zelie St Pierre@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:32:00 -0600

To add another opinion here, I have taken Celexa, Lexapro, Prozac and Zoloft
for depression with "meh" effects at best, over the course of maybe 12 years.
Actual negative effects from some of them, including just kind of a blotting
out of whole years of my life and also flattened affect.  And there were
periods in there where I didn't take anything; some of those periods were okay,
some were hellish.

Since I was developing some anxiety symptoms a few years ago, my doctor put me
on Effexor.  If they ever take Effexor off the market, I am screwed.  It really
feels like Effexor makes some connection in my brain that is not being made
otherwise.  Since I've been on it, my marriage and sex life have improved, I
have more friends, I've gotten a promotion, blah, blah, blah.  I really feel
like it makes it possible for me to live a fuller life without
depression/anxiety hanging over me all the time.  The only downside is that I
get the brain zaps when I don't take it on time.

The point is, you may want to try a couple of other drugs before you give up on
SSRIs.  I know, trying sometimes involves 2-3 months of misery.  For me, to
find Effexor, it was worth it, because I was miserable already.

(Endric/126415) My only suggestion is to make sure your Psych. knows what dosage...

Endric@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:14:00 -0600

My only suggestion is to make sure your Psych. knows what dosages you were
taking of previous drugs before ruling them out.  The Psych my wife went to
after a similar experience of "meh" results with several drugs took a look at
what the primary care doc had prescribed and realized that the doc was
prescribing the minimum effective dose (per drug company literature).
Unfortunatly, the concensus among Psychiatrists was that a proper theraputic
dose was 150 -225mg instead of the 75mg her primary was giving her.  Which I
only brin

bring up because apparently the psych said that was a pretty common problem
with primary care docs when treating psychiatric disorders.  Since side effects
are common with the drugs, they tend to go with the minimum dose even when the
result is equally minimal.

(SilverEdge/126414) Im on Lamictal as well. My doctor has prescribed it as a 'mood ...

SilverEdge@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 18:14:00 -0600

Im on Lamictal as well.  My doctor has prescribed it as a 'mood stabilizer',
never saying anything about bipolar disorder.  He said that it was to help keep
the highs from going too high and more importantly the lows from going to low.
I'm generally quite stable but feel more on an even keel when on the meds.  I
had tried amitriptiline and nortriptiline previously and the side effects with
being continually tired and absolutely *zero* sex drive just didn't work for
me.  Lamictal keeps me feeling normal with the benefits of the stabilization.

You're welcome to Mail> me in confidence if you wish to discuss more about your
situation.  Good luck!

(Karma Police/126413) I was originally diagnosed with depression as a teenager and the...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 15:21:00 -0600

I was originally diagnosed with depression as a teenager and then later
diagnosed in my 20s with Bipolar I.  After going back to the doctor a few years
ago, she thinks that a more accurate diagnosis would be cyclothymia, since I'm
pretty much fully functioning and my episodes tend to be triggered by outside
stressful circumstances.  My episodes are also seasonal.  Right now, I'm going
through a bit of a depressed period - requiring more sleep than usual, and my
energy level is way down.  :P  Yuck.
Anyway....the ambiguity is normal.  It sucks, because you just want a diagnosis
to stick so you can find a treatment that works - but yeah, it's normal.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126412) She left the diagnosis at "Mood Disorder NOS" for now, so I thin...

Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:40:18 -0600


She left the diagnosis at "Mood Disorder NOS" for now, so I think that
cyclothymia is probably still on the table.  Thanks. :)

(Bleys/126411) You may want to also read up on cyclothymia.

Bleys@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 12:21:00 -0600

You may want to also read up on cyclothymia.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126410) I recently went to a psychiatrist after years of relying on my p...

Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:30:17 -0600

I recently went to a psychiatrist after years of relying on my primary
care physician to help me with depression, using various
antidepressants including Wellbutrin and SSRI's, with "meh" results,
but better than not taking them (not taking them really fucked me).

It was like "I can feel kinda shitty on antidepressants, or really
shitty on nothing at all."

So my psychiatrist wants to move towards treating me using mood
stabilizers instead of antidepressants.  Mood stabilizers are what you
use for bipolar.  The idea being, if one thing isn't working why not
try a different thing?

Anyway, I thought this was kind of odd, cause I definitely don't have
Bipolar I or II by DSM-IV criteria.  But I happened upon a book in a
bookstore called _Why Am I Still Depressed?_ that makes a good case
that while Bipolar I is a pretty distinct thing, there is a spectrum
of Bipolar II, where one end is difficult to distinguish from Plain
Old Depression, and a lot of depression may be this kind of Bipolar II
misdiagnosed.

Thinking about this I realize that a lot of things about my life
during less-depressed times could be interpreted as very mild symptoms
of mania, and some things that have gone wrong with me in the past
year (where my mental health has been shakier than usual), that have
gone along with my depression but sure not seemed like ordinary
depression, scream "dysphoric mania."  (I.e. spending a couple days
barely able to restrain myself from constant anger at everyone and
everything).

So maybe I'm "kind of bipolar" after all instead of plain old
depressed, and maybe lamyctal will help me where SSRIs just keep me
from falling too far.

Anybody else had experience with this kind of ambiguity (Major
Depression vs Bipolar II)?

 -- bipolar bear

(Karma Police/126409) Tempestas>

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 11:38:00 -0600

Tempestas>
I totally have the same attitude when it comes to getting help for friends. 
I'm more than willing to do some research for you, drive you to your first
appointment, hell I'll even set it up for you, if you ask me nicely.  I'll sit
by your side or in the car and wait for you.
But after that, you're kind of on your own.  If I do a bunch of research and
hand it to you, you need to be the one to take the next step.  If you are
scared, but willing, I'll help you out.  But if you just drop the ball, eff it.
I'm done trying.

(Tempestas/126408) Moab> He doesn't have internet and asked me to print out some st...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:47:00 -0600

Moab> He doesn't have internet and asked me to print out some stuff about these
groups and meeting dates/times... Really it was more of an aside when I asked
originally... I was curious how the Really Fucked Up (TM) people go about
dealing with multiple addictions (with success) in case he asked.

He's a friend of mines, I don't mind doing him a favor. He's done a lot for me
and other people and friends of mines over the years. He's one of those dudes
that's always the first one there when there's work to be done. When he wants
to do something, he's totally the person to shut his mouth, put his head down,
and do the work. Not a bad guy at all, so I don't mind giving him a shot. We'll
see if he takes the shit serious or not, and if not- fuck him, no more help
from me.

(Moab/126407) Tempestas>

Moab@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:25:00 -0600

Tempestas>

I was rereading your posts and got to thinking - if you friend is the one with
questions and concerns, why isn't HE the one gathering up this information?
How come he has brought it to you and why are you doing the leg work?

It might be really beneficial for him to actually go out and find this
information on his own.  My impression in your two posts is that you may be
enabling him a bit?

Also, multiple addictions really does sound like a pretty big problem and
profesional therapy of one type or another in conjunction with a 12-step group
will be very helpful.

In my experience people come and go from 12-steppers pretty easily.

Good luck to your friend!

(Karma Police/126406) I also know people who go to multiple types of meetings. I had ...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 15:18:00 -0600

I also know people who go to multiple types of meetings.  I had a co-worker who
went to AA, NA, and GA (gambler's anon).  She moved to Milwaukee after having
spiral down of epic proportions from living in Reno, NV for 3 years.

(Zelie St Pierre/126405) Lots of people go to multiple types of meetings at the same time...

Zelie St Pierre@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 10:17:00 -0600

Lots of people go to multiple types of meetings at the same time, too.  There
are many alcoholics who get sober in AA and then realize that they've turned to
food as a new, less-destructive crutch.  And tons of people are in either AA or
OA or NA and then also in Al-Anon, the group for friends/family of addicts.

(Heavenslice/126404) Closed means that only addicts/alcoholics are at that meeting, o...

Heavenslice@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:59:00 -0600

Closed means that only addicts/alcoholics are at that meeting, open means that
anyone can come to the meeting--if you're going for support, you'll want to go
to an open meeting so you don't have to wait in the car. Growing up I've heard
a lot of the differences between the AA meetings and NA meetings locally, they
are very similar, but people can get attached to one group or the other and
they don't always think highly of the other group. He may be best off going to
some of all of them to find out which group dynamics would help him out the
most, as the regulars may benefit him in one group over another. If he needs
help, though, the best thing may be for him to get to any meeting as soon as he
can just to get help. They can provide more information if he asks. BUT, please
remember that if you're doing this for him, he won't recover until he's ready,
it can't be you, it has to be him. It breaks my heart, but a lot of people come
before they're ready and they relapse. That doesn't mean they shouldn't come,
you get what you're supposed to at every meeting you go to (even if you're just
there so you're not out in the car), but as a non-addict I've sometimes had a
hard time meeting people who come for a bit and then I learn that they've
relapsed.

(Tempestas/126403) I checked out the websites of all 3 last night, and they're all ...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 08:25:00 -0600

I checked out the websites of all 3 last night, and they're all 12 step
programs, I saw a lot of similarities. I don't know if he's going to want a
meeting close to home or far off (for privacy), so I printed off the lists. I
didn't think his drug issue was that big, never seen him toot more than 3-4
lines in a night and I never seen him buy. He'll only use if somebody puts it
in front of him. He does drink quite a bit, not every night, but when he starts
he won't stop until every drop is gone.

This is the same friend of mines that didn't dump his gf after she bit him-
Yeah, the bitch fucking BIT him. Boggles my mind. He had serious medical
consequences from the bite, his arm was black for over a month from the
bruising and then infection (she broke the skin).

He was actually asking me about the sex addict thing and had been reading a lot
of commentary on Tiger Woods and was hearing a lot of himself I guess. He asked
me to print some stuff off the internet on that too, hopefully I'll have some
time this week to swing by his house.

I just hope the dude isn't planning on picking up some girl at a sex meeting...
He is a bit of a perv. He's my friend, but I can't hang by his place alone
because he starts pervin. I can't stand it and I've told him off a few times.
So I liked drumm's idea, pick any group and use the 12 stepping to work on the
whole mess. Hopefully he'll pick a local meeting, I don't really want to be
driving him to east bumblefuck to save his pride.


Oh, one last question... I guess I should call ahead on the meetings I saw
onlines, I'm not sure what "closed" and "open" means on them and there's a lot
of abbreviations and stuff. There's tons of meetings for all 3 groups within 25
miles and I'm not sure how to narrow them down. I'm not going to sit in the car
freezing my arse off through the whole meeting, and I have no intention to quit
drinking or anything, so I'd need to find a meeting I could sit inside and keep
my mouth shut at, while he learns whatever he's gonna.

(Drummeractorcomic/126402) I think all the groups you mentioned function basically the same...

Drummeractorcomic@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:38:00 -0600

I think all the groups you mentioned function basically the same way, have the
same ideology, and follow the same methods.  They areall about overcoming
addiction in general.  So you would not attend each one in succession, any
would help you to overcome all your addictions.

(Moab/126401) Tempastas>

Moab@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:28:00 -0600

Tempastas>
They should get some professional therapy first, I would think.

(Cenatour/126400) i would think - amateur pov here - the one causing the most dest...

Cenatour@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 12:29:00 -0600

i would think - amateur pov here - the one causing the most destruction....
would that be NA cos there is a greater chance of ODing....or is the person
driving while drunk? if so AA...or does the person have an STD?? then SAA...

damn some people are really good at fucking up their lives

(Tempestas/126399) I wasn't sure where to ask this, but I'm curious. If a person is...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 08:10:00 -0600

I wasn't sure where to ask this, but I'm curious. If a person is (seriously
now)... If a person is addicted to sex, drugs, and alcohol- How do they decide
which meeting to join first? (SAA, NA, AA?)

(-- anonymous -- <>/126398) Petty here> Thanks for the responses :) I'll be seeing a bunch o...

Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:40:19 -0600

Petty here> Thanks for the responses :) I'll be seeing a bunch of family this
weekend, maybe I'll get up enough nerve to try the heart-to-heart thing. I'm
going to wait and see what the general mood is, we'll be visiting for a
funeral.

(Pookie/126397) yeah what moab said. im not used to saying things i mean when i ...

Pookie@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 14 Jan 2010 05:23:00 -0600

yeah what moab said. im not used to saying things i mean when i mean
something.. talking good.. bottling up... bad

(Moab/126396) Petty,

Moab@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:18:00 -0600

Petty,
Agree with Pookie, it's not petty to have hurt feelings, but IMO the hurt
feelings aren't about the shower, but the perceived hurt your MIL has caused
you.

My advice (note: I usually take my wife's advice as she generally is right, so
take this with a grain of salt) is that real heart-to-heart conversation has a
better chance of healing wounds and solving problems than anytihng else.

If there is any way you can talk to your MIL without getting aggressive and
without her getting defensive, you might gain her perspective - and seeing
things from outside of yourself is, in my experience, the best way to let go of
the hurt.

I can totally see how you might feel hurt given the situation as you've
described it.  I hope you can find some peace.

(Pookie/126395) hi petty. ya know its not petty to have hurt feelings. one way t...

Pookie@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:54:00 -0600

hi petty. ya know its not petty to have hurt feelings. one way to solve this
and someone once told me they did it is to invite all your friends over and
make it a baby shower or unbirthday or some other celebration that you can have
just for you. my friend gave out small gifts to everyone, not expecting
anything from anyone else and they had little games they played and people did
bring gifts for her it was great. she had a blast and her friends loved it too.
anyway ta ffor now. just a suggestion. good luck and i hope you feel better.
you are importaint this just made you feel bad. dont let it. do someting fun
for yourself. ta for now.

kloi

(-- anonymous -- <>/126394) Call me Petty.

Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:50:17 -0600

Call me Petty.

I'm married and have four children and have never had a shower thrown for me.
I've never asked why I didn't get a shower for my wedding, I'm assuming it's
because it was a small wedding and not a lot of people got invited. As for the
babies, I had my first before I met my husband and my friends tried to throw me
a shower, but the timing was bad and it ended up being on the day he was born,
so I didn't get to attend. My MIL was going to throw me one for my second
child, but he was born right before Christmas and she planned to do the shower
in February. Everybody I know gave him a gift for Christmas, so I felt weird
about having a shower after that and I don't think she had gotten very far on
planning it so it was scrapped. I'm not hurting for stuff, it's not that I
wanted a lot of presents, but it's the idea of celebrating that person. Why was
I not worth celebrating?

Anyway, it usually doesn't bother me, I don't go around pouting because I
didn't get a shower, but yesterday my MIL told me that my SIL and my future SIL
are both getting 3 showers each, one of which will be combined, but still. Part
of me thought I didn't get a shower because I didn't marry into the
shower-giving type, but apparently that's not the case. So now I'm down, really
down, I cried for about 1/2 an hour this morning before getting up and I keep
thinking about it.

This is petty. Nothing I can do now will get me a shower then. How can I get
over it?

(Zelie St Pierre/126393) Yeah, based on my experience, no "Anon" group is going to /call/...

Zelie St Pierre@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 09:35:00 -0600

Yeah, based on my experience, no "Anon" group is going to /call/ members on
anything if they are "talking the talk"  when they're attending meetings.  It's
not hard at all to make it sound like you're in recovery.  Take it from one who
knows!

(Pookie/126392) exactly. also try yahooing it cos google doesnt really get it so...

Pookie@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:36:00 -0600

exactly. also try yahooing it cos google doesnt really get it sometimes. anyway
just thought id write that. mmm didnt know it was only awn... online i dont
know what i was thinking. but they may be able to help him find one. i know
they have anger management classes at some universities so i would advise
looking there. anyway thats my twenty two cents for this time. ta for now.

kloi

(Tempestas/126391) pookie> he lives in Cromwell, CT and works in Portland, CT. A Mi...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:40:00 -0600

pookie> he lives in Cromwell, CT and works in Portland, CT. A Middletown group
would work (that's the biggest city between the two locations). Correct me if
I'm wrong, but it looks like that website is a online anger management class?
I'm going to try to search around the DSS site again tomorrow when I have more
time, probably try calling them again too- maybe I caught someone on the phone
that really doesn't know anything or was having a bad day and wasn't interested
in helping... Who knows. Sometimes the second or third phonecall is the charm
w/ these gub'mint agencies.

(Tempestas/126390) Thanks for the responses on the al anon... I'm really surprised ...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 12:27:00 -0600

Thanks for the responses on the al anon... I'm really surprised that my gf, who
is so damaged and totally manipulating the program to suit her needs is getting
promoted to teach others.

Her closest sister, her oldest friend, and myself are completely at a loss and
really starting to get fed up... And of course at the same time we're worried
about her safety. The sneaking the boyfriend into her bedroom at night w/ her
cokehead husband 15ft away is going to earn her physical harm if he catches
them. Its only a matter of time before she gets caught... And with that man SO
closeby, well, its urgent.

When I posted here, it was prompted by a discussion we had... The thought was
to use al anon to intervene and shut down her lying/manipulating. But I'm
guessing by the responses here that al anon really doesn't want to get into it
with their members?

The other problem is we can't get her entire family on board to stop this- her
husband can't know about the boyfriend (for her safety), and her kids can't
know about the boyfriend (obviously because if they know, the info can get to
their dad/her husband and again, safety issue).


Has anyone here ever had success with helping a friend/family member that's
putting themselves in a mess like this? How'd ya do it?

(Moab/126389) Agree with Zelie - the one al anon meeting I went to had absolut...

Moab@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 08:33:00 -0600

Agree with Zelie - the one al anon meeting I went to had absolutely no checks
and balances and actually I never went back.

(Pookie/126388) i just yahooed for anger management in connecticut and came up w...

Pookie@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 23:15:00 -0600

i just yahooed for anger management in connecticut and came up wiht a whole
list of answers.. what part of ct does your friend live in? mainly i came to
this web site thats at:

www.angermanagementseminar.com/states/Connecticut.html

so that will be the place for your friend to start. good luck ad have a nice
day.

kloi

(Tempestas/126387) I got a bit of a run around today calling DSS. How would an indi...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:12:00 -0600

I got a bit of a run around today calling DSS. How would an individual go about
finding free/low cost anger management groups ? A friend of mines is planning
on serving his wife papers right after the new year, but he wants to get a
couple months of anger management under his belt first. He's in CT.
I googled around a bit, but my google fu is probably failing.

(Zelie St Pierre/126386) From what I've seen, there are essentially no checks and balance...

Zelie St Pierre@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:44:00 -0600

From what I've seen, there are essentially no checks and balances on who can be
a sponsor in the Anonymous groups.  I'm not 100% sure what a Group Leader is,
but sponsorship (where a recovering addict asks someone with a greater length
of time sober/abstinent to work with him/her more intensely, maybe with daily
check-in phone calls, etc.) is a very informal process, at least in the
Anonymous groups I used to attend.  It's not as if they give you a badge and
say you can be a sponsor.  Since nobody there is officially sanctioned as a
therapist (unless they're a therapist in "real life", that is), and it's all
voluntary, it has to be pretty informal.

(Tempestas/126385) What sorts of checks and balances are there to groups like al-an...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Sun, 29 Nov 2009 17:16:00 -0600

What sorts of checks and balances are there to groups like al-anon?

I have a very dear friend that told me they want to make her a group leader,
and I'm honestly completely baffled why she would be asked. She's far from
healed (but maybe you don't have to be healed to lead?)... But I would think
more importantly the fact- she isn't following any sort of healing path.

She's currently lying to her family and closest friends, she's continuing to
live in a house with her alcoholic/drug/gambling addicted husband, she's dating
a man that is a former (and possibly current) alcoholic, she's sneaking/lying a
lot to date this man. Every close friend or family member that's she's trusted
to have meet this boyfriend doesn't like him.

She joined al-anon about 10 years ago... And in that same amount of time she
has completely changed as a person. She never used to isolate herself like she
does now. She's very lonely. She's somehow manipulating the al-anon teachings
to justify the way she's livign her life.

(Karma Police/126384) See, in terms of grandparents doing what you want them to do in ...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:10:00 -0600

See, in terms of grandparents doing what you want them to do in regards to your
kid - I don't think it's necessarily a black/white issue.  I'm not referring to
Nothing's situation in particular, just generally.  I think it's important for
kids to realize that different households have different rules and that you
have to obey those rules (within reason) when you are a guest in that house. 
They key is, of course, that those rules are reasonable and not totally off the
wall.  And that they respect that parents as well.  But my grandparents were
allowed to punish me if I disrespected their house rules, even if those rules
were different from my parents' house rules.  My parents explained ahead of
time what my grandparents' rules were, and that was that.  We disobey, we get
punished.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126383) Nothing here. Yeah, I'm kind of unwilling to put up with my dad'...

Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:20:16 -0600

Nothing here. Yeah, I'm kind of unwilling to put up with my dad's crap if he
decides to inflict it on my son. And honestly, I don't really see him
developing any new skills on the front of dealing with others with conflicting
views, and he's this "I'm the authority and you have to respect me" type (with
"respect" really meaning "fear my wrath"), so I just don't know how things will
go in the longer term.
-
He's never had an employee that he liked, he's never had a colleague he's
liked, he has only a couple friends and isn't on equal footing in a way with
either, so he's still always in the "authority" mode rather than actual
"friend" mode. There's a part of me that just feels really sad for him on all
he's missed out on with me, with so many people in his life. But the pity kind
of gets trampled on when he then tries to tell me wha tto do, says things about
my life or whatever that show zero understanding that I'm not him.
-
The biggest problem I have -- and the real source of any anger that's left in
me about this -- is that he and my mom both talk all the time about what great
parents they are and how dumb/inept/etc. other people/parents are, and how
great I turned out because they're so awesome. Mind you, I left home at 17 and
never missed them for even a day. (I speak to my mom often, but never have
actually *missed* them. Not once.) It is SO incredibly hard to listen to them
focus on how great they think they are and take all the credit for who I am
when in reality, I got myself where I am with hard work and rejiggering my
entire way of thinking.
-
Anyhow ... Apparently I needed to get that vent off my chest just now, but no,
there's no risk of me exposing my son to anyone, related to me or otherwise,
who treats me, my husband or my child without respect. I was actually scared to
have kids for a long time because I was afraid I'd risk hurting a child like my
dad did me, and I had to get to a point where I knew that wouldn't be the case
before I'd even consider it. Thanks again for everyone's thoughts. It's helped
me sort things out.
-Nothing

(SilverEdge/126382) Then you have a talk with him as a parent - obviously, not in fr...

SilverEdge@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:11:00 -0600

Then you have a talk with him as a parent - obviously, not in front of the
child.  "He is my child.  He will respect the rules I lay out for him.  You are
not his parent.  If you want to spend time with him, *you* will respect the
rules I lay out for him."  Might piss Dad off, but will get the point across.
If he isn't willing to respect her as a parent, then he doesn't get time with
the kiddo.  Simple.

No one is going to tell me what to do and disrespect me with regards to my own
child.  I've had to remind my mom a couple times over the last few years that I
was my daughters parent and that I was aware of what was going on and that it
was with my permission, or I was dealing with it, or whatever it was.  It's
never been a significant issue, but I've had to make the comments to put her
back in perspective.

(Carolyn/126381) But keeping the relationship would be harder if he demeans her o...

Carolyn@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:08:00 -0600

But keeping the relationship would be harder if he demeans her or doesn't
respect her opinion in front of her child.  I can imagine that getting more and
more difficult as the child gets older.

(SilverEdge/126380) I agree with Morning Sun. My step-father is an asshole. Is to ...

SilverEdge@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:01:00 -0600

I agree with Morning Sun.  My step-father is an asshole.  Is to pretty much the
entire family, even my mom a good part of the time.  But when it comes to the
grandkids, he's excellent with them.  It's a stark difference, but because of
it (and my mom wanting to see her), I bring my daughter around about one
weekend every month or so.

Keep that line open I think.  It's beneficial to him to have a grandpa figure
in his life.

(Morning Sun/126379) another point of advice comes from bill cosby> remember grandpar...

Morning Sun@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 06:40:00 -0600

another point of advice comes from bill cosby> remember grandparents are
parents now trying to get into heaven.  your father may have grown up since he
parented you.  good luck finding peace with the situation.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126378) Nothing here. Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate i...

Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:30:17 -0600

Nothing here. Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate it. I think I am
going to have to just find some way to relate to my dad on holidays and try to
keep the peace. My son is very young at this point, incidentally, so it's easy
for my dad to love him so much right now, treat him like he can do no wrong. I
don't think that will continue in the same way as my son gets older. I mean, I
don't expect my son to be identical in mindset to me and my husband, but my
household is .... decidedly different from how my dad wishes we would raise my
son, and my dad has no idea how to relate to people who question his line of
thinking for even a second. And I will *not* allow anyone to treat my son like
I was treated/still am treated in certain circumstances, and thus far my son is
very strong-willed, so ... I can't imagine how there wouldn't be friction in
the future. But who knows? I'm hoping I can find some way to warm up to my
father or at least find some way of just muddling through holidays and visits.
I thankfully live a plane flight away. Thanks again.

(Karma Police/126377) Considering your circumstances, I don't think it's unusual for y...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 10:57:00 -0600

Considering your circumstances, I don't think it's unusual for you to have a
lack of warm feelings for your father.  However, if he's a good grandfather to
your son, then the right thing to do is to keep that line of communication
open.  You do not have to have any sort of relationship with your dad outside
of that, but it would be wrong to deprive your son of his grandpa.  You seem to
understand that, and I commend you for it.
Keep in mind that parent-child relationships change frequently over the course
of a lifetime.  Right now, it seems best for you to keep your distance,
emotionally, from your dad.  And that's okay.  Perhaps later, you'll want to
forge a closer relationship with him again, and that's okay too.  Or maybe not.
Relationships run both ways, and I can imagine that getting close to dad would
be difficult, if not impossible, without a significant amount of change and
apology on his part.  Still, weirder things have happened.
Anyway, long story short, if you feel okay about...well, not feeling much, if
anything, towards your dad, then that's fine.  He was pretty crappy towards you
for a long time.  Actions have consequences.

(Joker/126376) You sure you didn't get my father? laugh

Joker@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:51:00 -0600

You sure you didn't get my father?  *laugh*

Nope, nothing wrong with it.  Completely normal IMO.

Unfortunately, your father (like mine) spent more time trying to carve a
relationship with you with very strict rules and regulations rather than
letting the relationship grow on its own.  Only one side got really anything
out of it and with any relationship, it takes two.

Basically, your father had an idea of what the relationship with you was
supposed to be like and you had no input to it.

Now, after all these years, you realize that the relationship never existed and
it seems strange because you have a father and feel like you should have some
sort of relationship but there is nothing there.

It is a strange feeling because I know how it is but it is okay.  The thing you
have to remember is you got to where you are because of you and not him.  I hae
children as well and my father loves those grandkids like no other and I do
appreciate that.  Right now, for my kids, their grandfather can do no wrong and
I would like to keep the relationship like that which means that any problems I
have with my father get moved aside because my children are way more important.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126375) No, nothing, it's not wrong.

Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:30:17 -0600

No, nothing, it's not wrong.

My family has been pretty much verbally abusive to me my whole life, and when
they're not being that, I'm an afterthought.

It's ok not to love your father.  It sounds to me like he didn't love you for
you.  Reasonable people can agree to disagree on things.  Real love doesn't
have conditions.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126374) So ... it's been awhile since I've been active on ISCA, but I th...

Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:20:16 -0600

So ... it's been awhile since I've been active on ISCA, but I thought I might
get some support and advice here because this forum has been helpful in the
past. I'm writing because of my father.
-
I'm in my 30s, have a small child, always had a rough relationship with my
father growing up. I am and always was a fairly sensitive person, and my father
was never supportive of that or anything else about me that makes me, well, me.
(Different political views, different religious views, different interests.)
-
I spent the first 30ish years of my life very unhappy, tied up in knots
mentally because nothing I ever did was right for my father (even though I was
actually quite the "good girl" in a way -- good grades, scholarships, master's
degree, successful professionally -- because I dared do things like live with
my boyfriend, have gay friends, etc. my dad was always trying to intervene and
make me do things his way, the "only" right way).
-
So ... it took me a really long time to figure out what was going on, and it
took me another couple years of good solid therapy to get to a point where I
was finally comfortable just being myself and not worrying for the first time
in my life about what my dad thought about my choices.
-
And now I have a child that my dad just idolizes in a way I find both wonderful
and nauseating at once, and I'm finally not angry with my dad anymore in the
way I was for many, many years and I own my role in our adult relationship. But
I've suddenly found that I ... like ... I no longer feel anything toward him at
all. Well, there's some anger left, but mainly I just feel indifferent. We
conference call him and my mother so that my son can stay in touch with them,
and I don't want anything to do with my dad. I don't actually like him as a
person in the slightest. And though the things I've described above may sound
like garden-variety parent-child differences, my dad was actually very verbally
abusive my whole young life, and he has never once shown me an ounce of respect
for my perspective on anything, and even in my home he is unwilling to stop
questioning my every move and generally making it seem as if I am somehow inept
while, to quote a favorite movie, he's the one who sucks.
-
Sorry for all the exposition here. But I just ... it's like I no longer feel
like we have any relationship. And he and mom are "all about the family," and
when I have spoken with my mom about how my dad treats/treated me, she's asked
me not to speak to him about it because it would devastate him. So she's not
supportive either, but I have more to do with her and still feel some
connection there.
-
Is this ... wrong? Is it wrong not to love your own father? Is it wrong to feel
nothing for someone who clearly in his own way loves me back? I spent 17 years
in his home, and yet when I'm in contact with him -- only mainly ont he
conference calls with my son -- I just don't want to hear his voice, don't
actually have any interest in anything he says. That after always caring in the
past too much.
-
I was always so angry, and now ... again, there's still anger, I guess, but
it's diminishing as time passes and I work on this, but mainly I feel nothing.
I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has gone through this. Please no judgment
about my father's parenting; I know there are kids who've gone through worse,
but I spent 30 years as an instable food addict (used food like others would
use drugs) before digging myself out of that black hole of misery and figuring
out how to be happy, and it mainly had to do with my dad's voice in my head
telling me from a very young age how his way was the only way and my own
thoughts were crap.
-C
OOps, you can call me Nothing.

(Pookie/126373) om both frustrated and content at the moment. my younger son fin...

Pookie@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:16:00 -0600

om both frustrated and content at the moment. my younger son finally got caught
out after curfew and ended up in the youth center up here because of having a
warrant for failure to appear and not calling his po. im kind of resigned to it
as well so hes technically safe and whatnot but i am still frustrated about it
too. but hes 16 so headstrong. anyway thank you for lsitening to me vent. argh.

(Drummeractorcomic/126372) Of course, you may need to just come to a realization that sales...

Drummeractorcomic@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 21:11:00 -0500

Of course, you may need to just come to a realization that sales is not for
you, and find a career that is more suited to your personality.  I hate
selling, and would probably have a similar reaction if my family income was
based on me earning a comission.  That is why you will never find me in a sales
job unless i'm desperate and starving.

(Moab/126371) Caller>

Moab@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:40:00 -0500

Caller>
If you can afford it, visit with a therapist.

(Tempestas/126370) Practice.

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:08:00 -0500

Practice.
While you're practicing, think of the worst thing that could possibly happen.
Practice with a friend with them acting out the worst thing that could happen.
Evaluate your anxiety through the whole process.

Anxiety, is it 1-10 just touching the phone to dial?
1-10, dialian and listening to the line ring?

Hell, just grab a phone book one night at home and call 20 people you don't
know just to say "hi". Some of them will be mad you called, some are going to
be all "wtf?" (ie: they won't know how to respond), and some will think you're
a really cool person.  ((I actually did this to get over my fear when I first
started doing this type of marketing... I KNOW its stupid, but I did just 20
calls every night- I only counted calls where I spoke to a human being. So if I
dialed 40 numbers to get 20 live people, that's what it would take. I got over
my fear in 5 nights of stupidity... It was actually kinda fun after a while. I
got control of my emotions, I knew what people would say to me, and I found
ways to react to keep them on the phone longer and even cool their tempers))

(Karma Police/126369) Rehearse. Find a friend, mentor, co-worker, whomever and rehear...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:00:00 -0500

Rehearse.  Find a friend, mentor, co-worker, whomever and rehearse making sales
calls.  I used to make a ton of them when I worked for an insurance company.  I
didn't make cold calls very often - mostly I just set appointments for current
customers.  But still - we had a TON of training before they allowed us on the
phone.  Pitching on the phone is tough.  It was hard to set appointments with
current customers sometimes - even harder with new customers or prospects. 
Usually, I set one appointment for every 10 calls I made.  That's 9 out of 10
rejections.  Without rehearsing to the point of making it rote and boring, that
would really sting after awhile.
Seriously, just rehearse.  Do it over and over.  Think of possible rebuttals
and your responses.  Write them down.  Memorize them.
Also, if you are really serious about going into sales, consider taking an
improv class.  It'll help make your calls sound more spontaneous.

(-- anonymous -- <>/126368) it's sales, setting appointments, anything business related. do ...

Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:20:18 -0500

it's sales, setting appointments, anything business related. do ok with
personal calls like the gas company. don't feel as much pressure in person. not
enough for a panic attack anyway.

(Drummeractorcomic/126367) Is it only when making sales, or do you have trouble making any ...

Drummeractorcomic@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:04:00 -0500

Is it only when making sales, or do you have trouble making any business-type
calls?  Setting appointments, making reservations, etc.?  You you panic when
calling a credit card company or your gas company abbout your bill?
ON the flip side, is it only the phone?  You you feel the same pressure trying
to make sales or influence people in person?

(-- anonymous -- <>/126366) normally email or instant message coworkers vendors and regular ...

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:10:18 -0500

normally email or instant message coworkers vendors and regular customers.
occasionally i'll call but not often.

(Tempestas/126365) Huh. Ok... Do you normally pick up a phone at work to call

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:01:00 -0500

Huh. Ok... Do you normally pick up a phone at work to call
coworkers/vendors/regular customers?

(-- anonymous -- <>/126364) don't know. if i did i could fix it myself. fear of rejection. f...

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:10:17 -0500

don't know. if i did i could fix it myself. fear of rejection. fear of failure.
fear of success. fear of embarassment. fear of bothering them. no idea.

(Tempestas/126363) Why are you afraid to call these people?

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 19:55:00 -0500

Why are you afraid to call these people?

(-- anonymous -- <>/126362) i have a dilemma and need some options or opinions. part of my j...

Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:50:17 -0500

i have a dilemma and need some options or opinions. part of my job involves
calling qualified leads. these are people who've already expressed interest in
my company's services. they all said yes call me about xyz. every time i go to
pick up the phone and call i have a panic attack. can't breathe. start shaking.
i'm going to lose my job if i can't get over this. help?

(Pookie/126361) yeah im with karma police how old are you? are you menopausal or

Pookie@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:34:00 -0500

yeah im with karma police how old are you? are you menopausal or
perimenopausal? good luck. crying is sometimes frustrating. *offers comfots and
hugs*

(Sparky/126360) It may be more than an average person may have a breakdown, but ...

Sparky@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:34:00 -0500

It may be more than an average person may have a breakdown, but I wouldn't say
it's abnormal.  If you're set off by any of several things it's just those
things coming together and converging at the same time, which can make it
appear that you're always in tears.  It's not unusual to cry if someone else
does, and to have that set you off.  It happens!

(Karma Police/126359) Getting older....so are you old enough to be going through menop...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:11:00 -0500

Getting older....so are you old enough to be going through menopause?  That
could account for the hormones and the crying.

(Billie Joe/126358) i'm sorry. this is what happens when i telnet and work at the s...

Billie Joe@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:45:00 -0500

i'm sorry.  this is what happens when i telnet and work at the same time :)

(Tempestas/126357) BJ> I think I read the anon say he(she?) is taking wellbutrin an...

Tempestas@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:41:00 -0500

BJ> I think I read the anon say he(she?) is taking wellbutrin and was afraid of
being prescribed something stronger if they told their dr.

(Billie Joe/126356) crybaby - you say you keep your depression under control. are y...

Billie Joe@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 11:34:00 -0500


crybaby - you say you keep your depression under control.  are you talking
about just keeping your feelings in check or are you actually taking meds for
it?

(-- anonymous -- <>/126355) I know that lately I have been hormonal. I cry at everything. ...

Wed, 09 Sep 2009 08:50:17 -0500

I know that lately I have been hormonal.  I cry at everything.  I am not
pregnant.  I have a history of depression but, it's been kept under control
pretty well.

Lately, though, I have just been crying over everything.  Sad, happy,
commercials, kids.  There is no reasoning it out and I am beginning to get a
little worried.  I take Wellbutrin for an anti-depressant and I am really
afraid that they will want to put me on something stronger than wellbutrin if I
say something about it.

I have always been a pretty sensitive person and no one can cry alone in the
room because I will join in.  Is this just a part of getting older?  I know it
sounds weird but, is something wrong with me?  Should I be worried?

CryBaby

(Bristow/126354) Karma Police> Thanks for that insight. I have not had invasive s...

Bristow@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:58:00 -0500

Karma Police> Thanks for that insight. I have not had invasive surgery since I
was a kid so I don't remember much.  Mine was emergency cuz my appendix bursed
but I did go to the PCP first then to the ER to be evaluated and everything.

That is true *some* PCP will have enough knowledge as to recommend a good
treatment program but they don't always know what is best.

If you state that some insurance need a referral than those have to be the
insurances that do not have the behaviour health/substance abuse number located
on the back of the insurance card.

Thanks again for the insight about pain medication and substance abuse.

I will speak of my own experience and that the PCP does not always know who is
the best person to go to, to seek treatment.  Calling the number on the back of
the card was very helpful in getting the treatment I needed and yes the PCP
knows about my history but so far it hasn't made a difference in how I am
treated.

(Karma Police/126353) If you have a problem with drinking or controlled substances, yo...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:07:00 -0500

If you have a problem with drinking or controlled substances, your PCP will
evaluate you to see what, if any, pain medication you would need and how much.
He/she will have to take into account the fact that long term addiction to
alcohol or drugs will affect a person's reaction to pain medication.  They may
need a higher dosage - or it might not work at all, and alternative pain
treatments may be in order.
Also, you can go to your PCP as a first step towards addiction recovery.  You
don't have to, but they can certain recommend treatment programs and inpatient
care, should you need it.  Some insurance plans actually require you to get a
referral before starting inpatient care, but that varies from plan to plan.
Also your PCP usually needs to give you a physical before you go into surgery
to give you a clean bill of health and to provide your surgeon and
anesthesiologist with your medical history.  At the very least, they always
need to be made aware of any surgeries you are having.

(Bristow/126352) Karma Police> Ok I can see your point but I at the same time wha...

Bristow@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:48:00 -0500

Karma Police> Ok I can see your point but I at the same time what does your PCP
have to do with surgery? Your PCP is not the one that is going to perform
surgery on you correct?  I do understand informing your PCP of any condition
that you may have.  My point was just that the PCP isn't the first person you
have to contact in order to get help.  I am sorry if I made it sound like the
PCP does not need to know anything that is mental or substance abuse related.
I'm sorry I neglected to say that.  I was just more concern about helping the
person 'get' in the right direction to seek help.  I wasn't looking Long Term
at this so I am glad you brought that up.
I do understand how people need to be honest about their addictions or mental
illnesses as they prepare to have surgery.  I recently had an outpatient
procedure and they asked me some questions about mental illness and I did
wonder if people would be honest about it or not.  For that procedure they
use sedatives instead of anesthetics if I am not mistaken. I am pretty sure
about this.

Thank you for the kind reminder that our PCP should be informed of our entire
well being not just physical but mental as well, which includes addictive
behavior.
Just a random question.  Say for example someone ends up with a drinking
problem and is getting treated for it.  Would the PCP be reluctant to precribe
that person a controlled substance for example for pain if they needed
something of that sort?  Just curious how the PCP would fit into the picture
when it comes to them caring for a patient with such history.

(Karma Police/126351) OK, I'm going to say this one more time, and hopefully someone w...

Karma Police@rss.iscabbs.com — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 11:24:00 -0500

OK, I'm going to say this one more time, and hopefully someone will understand
it.
If you believe you have a problem with drugs or alcohol, yes, by all means,
contact a substance abuse clinic or Alcoholics Anonymous.  However, do not
think that all your bases are covered after that.  I say this because my sister
is an internal medicine doctor and sees patients all the time who have drug and
alcohol addictions.  If you have a PCP they NEED to know that you are
recovering or in treatment for drug/alcohol addiction.  You need to tell them
yourself - do not trust your insurance company to tell them.  You also, at some
point in the near future, should go in to get checked out for the myriad of
health problems that addictions can cause.  From then on, your PCP will be on
the lookout for these issues in future exams.  Plus, if you have surgery, your
PCP can talk to your anesthesiologist about how much stuff he/she needs to give
you to knock you out.  This is serious.  My sister has been in surgeries with
people who weren't honest about how much they drink or what kinds of drugs they
use and they WAKE UP IN THE MIDDLE OF SURGERY.  It's bad.
OK, I'm getting off my soapbox now.

(Bristow/126350) I am in agreement with Beret you call the mental health substanc...

Bristow@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:41:00 -0500

I am in agreement with Beret you call the mental health substance abuse number
on the back of your insurance card.  Your PCP has nothing to do with the mental
health/ substance abuse part of the insurance.  That is why there is a seperate
number on the Back of the insurance card for this purpose. When you call that
number you will talk to a professional to walk you through the steps to get the
help you need.  When you call that number it isn't like you are calling some
typical insurance person.  They are professionals in the area of mental health
and substance abuse.
I personally feel, if someone is asking for information on how to get help with
alcoholism then we should give the information we feel would be most helpful.
Alcoholics Anonymous is probably a good suggestion as well.
If someone believes they have a problem with substance abuse, which Alcohol is
one of them, then that is a step in the Right direction to getting much needed
help.

I am not speaking for the individul that asked for help but I will say that
there could be a possiblity that a person has other issues going on and is
seeking an outlet to escape those issues by using alcohol.  People that are
depressed can often go after the bottle to wash away the depression.  I take
substance abuse very seriously and I am proud of the person to come here to ask
for assistance in an area they feel is a problem for them.  It takes a lot to
admit one has a problem especially with substance abuse.

I wish you the very best and I hope you get the treatment that works best for
you.