College Life

(Gespalder/32048) http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jun2010/bs20100618_...

Gespalder@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 03 Jul 2010 14:09:00 -0500

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jun2010/bs20100618_385280.htm?link
_position=link1

COLLEGE DEGREE: BUYER BEWARE June 28, 2010, 8:01AM EST

College: Big Investment, Paltry Return
The value of a college degree is a middle-class article of faith. But exclusive
new research suggests it may be far less than previously thought

By Francesca Di Meglio

If there's one truism that goes virtually unchallenged these days, it's that a
college degree has great value. Beyond the great books, beyond the critical
reasoning skills, and beyond the experience itself, there's another way that a
college degree has value: Over the course of a working life, college graduates
earn more than high school graduates. Over the past decade, research estimates
have pegged that figure at $900,00, $1.2 million, and $1.6 million.

But new research suggests that the monetary value of a college degree may be
vastly overblown. According to a study conducted by PayScale for Bloomberg
Businessweek, the value of a college degree may be a lot closer to $400,000
over 30 years and varies wildly from school to school. According to the
PayScale study, the number of schools that actually make good on the estimates
of the earlier research is vanishingly small. There are only 17 schools in the
study whose graduates can expect to recoup the cost of their education and
out-earn a high school graduate by $1.2 million, including four where they can
do so to the tune of $1.6 million. At more than 500 other schools, the return
on investment, or ROI, is less -- sometimes far less. College, says Al Lee,
director of quantitative analysis at PayScale, "is not the million-dollar slam
dunk people talk about."

The top of the list was dominated by elite private universities, with the
Massachusetts Institute of Technology taking the top spot. Its net 30-year ROI
of nearly $1.7 million makes it the most valuable undergraduate degree in the
nation. The large number of MIT students who enter such high-paying fields as
engineering and computer science certainly helped, but the school's advantages
go well beyond that, says Melanie Parker, executive director for global
education and career development at MIT. "All the students at MIT, regardless
of their major, take a strong core curriculum, which exposes them to more
in-depth science and math than students at most other programs," Parker says.
"Employers look for any major from MIT, because our students are prepared for
almost anything."

A TASTE OF THE RANKING
The next best education bargain was California Institute of Technology in
Pasadena, Calif., where students out-earned high school grads by about $1.6
million, followed by Harvard University in Cambridge, Mass.; Harvey Mudd
College in Claremont, Calif.; and Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H. For the
complete ranking, and an in-depth explanation of the methodology, check out our
interactive table ( http://www.businessweek.com/interactive_reports/bs_collegeR
OI_0621.html ).

The new research is based on self-reported compensation data collected through
PayScale's online pay comparison tools. PayScale examined pay reports from 1.4
million graduates of U.S. colleges and universities with no advanced degrees to
calculate the ROI of each school. One reason the PayScale study resulted in a
far lower estimate of the ROI on a college education is the way it calculated
college costs. Instead of assuming everyone graduates in four years, as some
do, PayScale used the actual number of years it takes students to graduate from
each institution -- 4, 5, or 6 years. Another reason for PayScale's far lower
ROI estimate is that it accounts for the fact that many students never
graduate -- and go on to earn little more than a high school graduate. For
them, the ROI on their college education is effectively zero.

Of the two, graduation rates had a far bigger impact on ROI. Of the 554 schools
in the study, the net ROI -- Of the two, graduation rates had a far bigger
impact on ROI. Of the 554 schools in the study, the net ROI -- for graduates
only -- was $627,239. But once adjusted for the average six-year graduation
rate of 58 percent, the average overall net ROI shrank by 37 percent, to
$393,574. Schools with the worst graduation rates -- at some schools, fewer
than 20 percent of students graduated in six years -- fared even worse in the
PayScale analysis.

"Some universities are getting paid to have people show up, take a class, and
flunk out," says Lee. "If you bought cars, and half the cars didn't work within
the first six months, and you couldn't get your money back, people would be
pretty outraged."

COMPLAINTS ABOUT DATA ANALYSIS
Schools that performed poorly in the PayScale analysis took issue with the
methodology. Among the complaints: PayScale based the study on a small,
self-selecting sample of alumni from each school -- on average, about 1,000 --
and failed to consider financial aid, which would have reduced total college
costs and improved ROI for all schools. One school that argued in favor of
incorporating financial aid in the calculations was Philadelphia University,
which had a 30-year net return on investment of $218,000. Using the school's
average financial aid award and more recent graduation rate, the 30-year net
ROI would be $276,000.

Other schools said the methodology also failed to account for the intangible
benefits of a college education, including the benefits to society. "If
monetary Return on Investment (ROI) were the main purpose of education, most of
us would make different career decisions," wrote Pat Pike, interim provost and
vice-provost for education at Biola University in LaMirada, Calif., in an
e-mail. "Biola's education is not primarily about money. If you calculated the
ROI [to] society of a Biola education, compared with the average, it would be
huge. "

While private schools dominated the top of the list, public schools proved to
be far better value overall, at least for in-state students. Because of the
lower costs paid by in-state students -- $82,301 compared with $126,933 for
out-of-state students at public institutions and $170,219 for students at
private schools -- they enjoyed the best net annualized ROI: 9.7 percent. The
worst deal: paying out-of-state tuition at a public university. Doing so
results in an average annualized net ROI of 8.4 percent. Private schools
yielded a net annualized return of 9.1 percent.

CREDENTIAL INFLATION
Individual schools fared well, or poorly, for many reasons. At Skidmore, the
elite private liberal arts college in Saratoga Springs, N.Y., that was an
all-women's school until 1971, lower salaries for women, who make up a
disproportionate share of its alumni base, contributed to lower overall
earnings for graduates. The result was a 30-year net ROI of $325,700, placing
it at the 58th percentile for all private schools in the study. "If Skidmore's
net ROI were based on alumni earnings since 1990 rather than 1980, it would be
$150,000 higher," said Dan Forbush, a Skidmore spokesperson, in an e-mail.
Other schools paid a price for a focus on the liberal arts, teaching, or other
academic specialties that produce many graduates who pursue careers in
low-paying occupations. Such schools as Harvey Mudd, most of whose graduates go
into careers in engineering and science, have something of an unfair advantage
over schools such as Lesley University , where more than 70 percent of students
major in the liberal arts, visual and performing arts, public administration,
and social services.

One big conclusion that can be drawn from the PayScale data is that college --
and college alone -- may not be the great investment it was once thought to be.
Richard Vedder, director of the Center for College Affordability & Productivity
in Washington, D.C., notes that with the college-educated accounting for a
larger percentage of Americans, the bachelor's degree has been devalued, and
its ROI has taken a hit. "We have credential inflation in America. A college
degree has become mundane and ordinary," Vedder said. "We used to send kids to
college to become lawyers and doctors. Now we send them to college to work at
Walmart."

A. Jordan, who graduated with a degree in political science from the University
of North Carolina in Wilmington in 2008, knows about the devaluing of the
college degree all too well. As a stewardess in the private yachting industry
with nothing but a high school diploma, she says she earned triple what she's
making now in her administrative support job in Winston-Salem. She's making so
little money with a college degree, she's considering returning to school for
her master's. "Philosophy, political science, and other degrees of that nature
are not giving you concrete skills," Jordan wrote in an e-mail. She declined to
use her full name, citing possible career repercussions.

THE PROFESSIONAL ADVANTAGE
Advanced and professional degrees, however, may be a bigger differentiator in
the labor market, with bigger payoffs. According to a June 15 study by the
Georgetown University Center on Education & the Workforce, the gross lifetime
earnings for someone with a professional degree is nearly $4.7 million, about
$3.5 million more than a high school dropout earns. "The increased earning
power conferred by postsecondary education and training is both tangible and
lucrative over a worker's lifetime," says Nicole Smith, senior economist with
the center.

Another conclusion suggested by the PayScale data is that brands matter, and
cutting corners on a college education doesn't pay. The top of the list is
dominated by such well-known schools as Princeton, Yale, Duke, and Amherst, and
five of the top 10 are Ivy League institutions, where 30-year net returns on
investment averaged nearly $1.4 million. One possible reason that such schools
fare well in an ROI analysis is that they educate the wealthiest part of the
population, says Jack Maguire, an educational consultant and former dean of
admissions at Boston College. Wealthier families produce children with higher
SAT scores who are more successful in gaining admission to highly selective
schools. After graduation, family wealth confers a great career edge, as well,
with many graduates taking advantage of family connections to land top jobs.
Says Maguire: "It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophesy."

Students who made an investment in higher education at the schools at the top
of the list say they got their money's worth. Ryan Pope, who studied economics
at Harvard, says the experience prepared him to compete in the job market and
the Harvard name resonated with employers. "I don't believe my degree helped me
directly, but it gave me a better set of tools to complete my job," said Pope,
a 2008 graduate who is now marketing director at 2X Software in Dallas, in an
email exchange. "While I don't think I received a premium just for my degree, I
think my employers hopefully saw [it] as a sign that I was serious about my
work and would strive to succeed against tough requirements and deadlines."

LAGGING THE STOCK MARKET
For many, the very notion of a financial return on investment misses the point
of higher education entirely. Scott Jaschik, editor of Inside Higher Ed, a
website that covers news of colleges and universities, says the return on a
liberal arts education goes well beyond dollars and cents, and students who
major in liberal arts aren't in it for the money. "People who major in history
tend to think, 'I'd like to get a well-rounded education that will help me in
many fields,'" says Jaschik, a history major himself. "I don't think philosophy
and poetry majors are there because it's going to make them rich."

Maybe not, but most students expect, if not riches, then at least a comfortable
life. And according to PayScale's Lee, if they're enrolled at many of the
schools on the list, they will be bitterly disappointed. Over the past 30
years, the S&P 500 Index averaged about 11 percent a year. Only 88 schools out
of the 554 in the study had a better return than the S&P. Everywhere else,
students would have been better off -- financially, at least -- if they
invested the money they spent on their college educations and never set foot in
a classroom.

"For almost every school on the list," writes Lee in an e-mail, "prospective
students paying full price would probably have been better off investing in the
stock market 30 years ago rather than spending their money on a college
education."

Di Meglio is a reporter for Businessweek.com in Fort Lee, N.J.

(Effendi/32047) We reject credits from the U of Alabama (one of our sister publi...

Effendi@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:34:00 -0600

We reject credits from the U of Alabama (one of our sister public schools in
the state system) because their curriculum doesn't match up with ours in some
cases and we find that students who take those courses at UA do worse in our
subsequent courses.

This is fairly common.  Rejection of credits says almost nothing about quality
of a program, in and of itself.

In the situation being discussed now, unlikely to transfer simply means they
aren't accredited.  There are all sorts of things a program has to be to be
accredited, and many of those are not simply "have a good curriculum".  You can
have a good curriculum and not be accredited for any number of reasons.  It
doesn't mean the education you're delivering has no value.

(JuggernautXL/32046) War Boy> From a purely academic perspective, that's rarely compl...

JuggernautXL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:26:00 -0600

War Boy> From a purely academic perspective, that's rarely completely true. It
more has to do with compatibility of specific programs and courses and methods
of teaching. Also, test requirements and the likes also come into play.

You would be surprised how arbitrarily alot of colleges reject credits even
from accredited schools. It's more a matter of schools having an attitude.

Anyways, so, just wanted to say it's not all like that... definitely a
combination of factors.

(War Boy/32045) "Self contained and complete in themselves" meaning "Giving the ...

War Boy@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:29:00 -0600

"Self contained and complete in themselves" meaning "Giving the HR guy
something to laugh about as they toss the resume in the trash.

Honestly.  "Credits Earned Are Unlikely To Transfer" is effectivly splashing
"WE SUCK" in giant letters across the screen.

(SunDance/32044) Generally, those degree programs are meant to be self-contained ...

SunDance@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:31:00 -0600

Generally, those degree programs are meant to be self-contained and complete in
themselves, rather than something you do to get a GPA and then transfer to a
"real" school.

(DesCartes/32043) Self-improvement?

DesCartes@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 03:25:00 -0600

Self-improvement?

(Effendi/32042) Because they don't intend to try to transfer them.

Effendi@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:05:00 -0600

Because they don't intend to try to transfer them.

(Gespalder/32041) Since this pertains to college I'll post here

Gespalder@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:53:00 -0600

Since this pertains to college I'll post here

Every time I se commercials for schools like ITT Technical Institute, DeVry,
etc. I see the disclaimer "Credits unlikely to transfer"

Why would someone take a class at a place where the credits are unlikely to
transfer elsewhere?

(Cyanide/32040) Apply for grad schools that you -want- to go to, and that are cl...

Cyanide@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:50:00 -0500

Apply for grad schools that you -want- to go to, and that are close to where
you can get a job. From the sounds of it, it is going to be harder to get into
a PhD program then it is to find a job in the field.

(Marigolds/32039) Part of the reason I asked is that I saw several people try and ...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:53:00 -0500

Part of the reason I asked is that I saw several people try and fail with the
distance PhD thing while I was doing my master's. And they had good workign
relationships with half their committees... it was always 1 or 2 people on the
committees though that would sink them.

I think the only school I could pull off the hire and go to school thing with
would be Univ of Redlands with ESRI; most other companies are a little too
afraid of the demand for Geography PhDs to pay someone's way through a PhD
program. Fellowships are pretty thick in the field and relatively easy to come
by (even Masters students get them regularly now), so generaly if you aren't
funded you're doing something wrong anyway.
To get an idea, UC-Santa Barbara's Geography program has the 2nd highest level
of student grant funding in the UC system after Berkeley's physics program.

(Cyanide/32038) Effendi> Just do it. :P You are in academia anyway. Just do the ...

Cyanide@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:41:00 -0500

Effendi> Just do it. :P You are in academia anyway. Just do the 22 year-plan.
:P

Marigolds> Don't do it. After seeing multiple people try to get their PhD, take
the coursework, and then move and try to finish their research/dissertation and
never finish it. I would recommend not wasting your time.

As Wicked Wizard said it is rather social in nature, and you need the contacts
in your field, you need to go to the conferences, present your papers, etc.
and most importantly have a -great- working relationship with your prof.
which is all extremely hard to do if you aren't right by campus.

If you have a job out of the box from google, etc. then maybe you
can hire in with a masters, move near a school that has your program get
your PhD and have them pay for it.?

(Wicked Wizard/32037) I thought Marigolds said that he/she doesn't care about 2, 3, or...

Wicked Wizard@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:09:00 -0500

I thought Marigolds said that he/she doesn't care about 2, 3, or 4 on your list
Effendi.

My point is simply this: as someone who is now finishing a PhD, I have to say
that I am continually annoyed by the sheer amount of utter crap that is
produced by PhD students (and eventual professors). I attribute this to the
fact that everyone and their mom wants to have a PhD, oftentimes without any
clear intellectual problem or compulsion. Schools are more than happy to cater
to this demand since it gives them graduate students as a source of cheap (and
generally shitty) labor.

I'm sure some will chime in and point out that I'm some sort of elitist snob--I
don't care. Anyone who has spent any amount of time in academia or even read a
significant amount of peer-reviewed articles knows that 80% of everything
produced in academia is utter shit. So in short, unless you have some
compelling intellectual problem or compulsion, don't go into academia just
because. At least that's my position. (And I'm not saying that it does or does
not apply to you, Marigolds.)

(Marigolds/32036) This is not exactly an immediate future thing fo rme either. Thi...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:11:00 -0500

This is not exactly an immediate future thing fo rme either. This is more of a
long term plan to make sure the option is available.

(Effendi/32035) Possible reasons:

Effendi@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:02:00 -0500

Possible reasons:
 1. It is (much) easier to publish, and get access to grants, with a PhD.
Anonymous peer review isn't so anonymous, especially in a niche field.
 2. Seeking tenure-track position in your future.
 3. A job may pay more if you have a PhD, or you may open new jobs which
require one (e.g. some director level jobs).
 4. Enjoy the higher ed environment in general.

I say this as someone who does not have a PhD, who is being begged to get a PhD
by my department, has seen my wife go through the hell that is a PhD, and
absolutely will not be getting my PhD any time soon.  But I think it's a bit
presumptuous to assume that just because you/we wouldn't put ourselves through
it means that no one else should, either.

(Wicked Wizard/32034) I still don't really see why you want a PhD. It seems sort of ...

Wicked Wizard@rss.iscabbs.com — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 06:30:00 -0500

I still don't really see why you *want* a PhD. It seems sort of pointless. You
don't need one to publish...the journals you'd want to publish in would be
anonymously peer reviewed, so they would take no stock of your credentials. Why
would you want to subject yourself to the misery of doing a PhD for "benefit"
is really puzzling to me.

(Marigolds/32033) Guess I'll have to wait until I'm ready to quit my job then; alr...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 08:19:00 -0500

Guess I'll have to wait until I'm ready to quit my job then; already talked to
representatives at the local schools and their geography programs are unlikely
to be granting PhDs any time soon. They don't havve the faculty and have been
unable to recruit faculty.

(War Boy/32032) Anyone who wold give you a distance Ph.D isn't a school that you...

War Boy@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 23:15:00 -0500

Anyone who wold give you a distance Ph.D isn't a school that you'd want it
from.

(Marigolds/32031) The most basic explanation of gis is a spatial database. Real wo...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:02:00 -0500

The most basic explanation of gis is a spatial database. Real world entities
are modeled as points, lines, polygons, and surfaces. These are, in turn,
joined to attributes. So, aerial photos, satellite photos, digital elevation
models, gps data, street maps, parcel maps, census data, all of these are
components of geographic information systems; and none of them are very
possible without gis.
geographic information science is the academic discipline linked to gis. It
studies digital cartography, spatial data mining, usage of map and digital
space, representation models, analytical methods, and the application of
analytical methods to real world problems.
Since GIS and GIScience can be applied to about any problem involving data sets
with an explicitly spatial component, it is a very broad discipline. Now when
you consider that GIS is just a subset of Geography, and Geography generally is
where you frame the problems that you solve with GIS, you get a sense of how
broad Geography has become.

(DesCartes/32030) Which doesn't explain what GIS is. What is it?

DesCartes@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:58:00 -0500

Which doesn't explain what GIS is.  What is it?
(I could google it.  But you're in the field, so you might be able to give a
decent introduction to it.)

(Marigolds/32029) Well, academically, there has been a huge explosion in geography...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:54:00 -0500

Well, academically, there has been a huge explosion in geography departments.
When i was doing my Master's, every ABD in the department got hired within 6
months of going to ABD status (5 of them). Even then there are still a good
dozen ads up continuously for positions that aren't getting filled because of
the shortage.
The reason for the shortage, in addition to the number of positions, is that
Microsoft, Google, Navteq, Yahoo, ESRI, etc. are all hiring geography PhDs as
fast as they can recruit them. I'm get an MS, and 3 of those 5 companies have
asked me if i wanted to leave my current position in the past 18 months.
GIS is actually two fields, geographic information systems, which can reside in
any department, and geographic information science, which tends to only reside
in geography/geosciences. The latter is what is particularly in high demand at
the PhD level.

(DesCartes/32028) What is GIS?

DesCartes@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:48:00 -0500

What is GIS?

(Effendi/32027) Some areas of geography are in extreme demand right now. Like, ...

Effendi@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:45:00 -0500

Some areas of geography are in extreme demand right now.  Like, say, Geographic
Information Systems.  Not that I have a clue what form of geography Marigolds
is interested in, but if it is GIS, it's probably not called geography.  For
instance, at the university I work at, the GIS program is in the anthropology
department.

(Rainmaker/32026) Maybe because there isn't a lot of value in a Ph.D. in Geography...

Rainmaker@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:07:00 -0500

Maybe because there isn't a lot of value in a Ph.D. in Geography???

Seriously.  I'm not TRYING to snark here...but the degree must be rather
worthless. What's the point?

(Marigolds/32025) Well, the job aspect would not really be an issue. I've got a po...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:14:00 -0500

Well, the job aspect would not really be an issue. I've got a position I
already like with ongoing offers. The PhD would be purely for my own benefit
and to make it easier for me to publish in the future.
I find it a little bizarre that there are no PhD Geography programs in the
state of Missouri (public and private schools) and no programs within a 3 hour
drive of st louis even.
(Plus, I do get a lot of contact with academics in the field through
conferences and other communication, just not daily contact.)

(Wicked Wizard/32024) You can, but most likely it is not possible, nor would it be enc...

Wicked Wizard@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:39:00 -0500

You can, but most likely it is not possible, nor would it be encouraged. A
large part of doing a PhD -- whether rightly or wrongly -- is social in nature.
If you're not there, then you won't make these sorts of social connections and
inroads and thereby greatly lessen your chances of getting a job after your
PhD.

(Marigolds/32023) I do already have a Master's in the field; and in the case of Io...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:02:00 -0500

I do already have a Master's in the field; and in the case of Iowa, I got my
Bachelor's there and know most of the current faculty. Guess I can just try
talking to them.

(DesCartes/32022) I'd talk to the program. I'd think that in most cases, it would...

DesCartes@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:58:00 -0500

I'd talk to the program.  I'd think that in most cases, it wouldn't work,
because there is some expectation of attending class.  (At least for the first
year or two, there are probably some required classes before you get into
reserach.)  If you already have a Master's, there may be fewer classes you'd
have to take.  Depends on the program.  Talk to them.

It may be possible to have some of the class requirements met with independent
study, and then just meet with a professor once or twice a month, doing
independent work and corresponding the rest of the time.

(Marigolds/32021) Alright, so I'm exploring the idea of working on a PhD. Problem ...

Marigolds@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:58:00 -0500

Alright, so I'm exploring the idea of working on a PhD. Problem is that there
are no PhD Geography programs in the state. The nearest four are Kansas State,
Oklahoma State, U of Oklahoma, and U of Iowa. I actually have researchers I
would like to work with at both Oklahoma and Iowa. (U of
Illinois-Urban-Champaign has a program, but its focus would be completely wrong
for me.)
So, I'm wondering how possible it is to do a PhD program at an out of state
school. Possible, completely impossible, or depends a lot on the school?

(JuggernautXL/32020) Don't know how many college kids still use this bbs... prollly a...

JuggernautXL@rss.iscabbs.com — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:21:00 -0500

Don't know how many college kids still use this bbs... prollly a few

I am an 3rd year student, just starting my industrial engineering classes [this
fall]...

If there are any math-heavy or engineering majors, feel free to message me over
questions, concerns, anything else...

(Gespalder/32018) On tonight's 20/20 they are about to discuss College vs. Trade S...

Gespalder@rss.iscabbs.com — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:25:00 -0600

On tonight's 20/20 they are about to discuss College vs. Trade School in the
current economy.
What do you think?
Is college better now or is trade school better?

(Effendi/32017) I'm sure much of it is demographics - I'm at UAB (U of Alabama a...

Effendi@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:59:00 -0500

I'm sure much of it is demographics - I'm at UAB (U of Alabama at Birmingham).
17,000 students, many part-time, many from disadvantaged backgrounds.  Many
can't afford laptops or iPhones - as a result, having on campus computing labs
I suspect is more important than say at Amherst.  But some stats re: IT
penetration into college populations seem universal (see: facebook).

I was at college 93-97, and no one had cell phones.  I recently found some of
my landline phone bills from that era. :-)

(DesCartes/32016) Yeah, the 5 landlines doesn't surprise me once I think about it,...

DesCartes@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:48:00 -0500

Yeah, the 5 landlines doesn't surprise me once I think about it, but it did
startle me at first.
I graduated back in '94, and went back to the same campus in the spring of '06
to take some classes, and there were two things that I felt were huge changes
in the intervening years.  Cell phones everywhere, and lots of laptops. 
Neither is suprising, but it just made it feel different.

UMass Amherst might be a smaller school than yours.  I don't know if their
demographics affects some of these statistics.  (I'm not sure that our students
here at Boise State are quite so net-inclined, but we have a lot of
nontraditional students.)

(Effendi/32015) Ok, I see now I misread the iPhone stats - only about 20% of the...

Effendi@rss.iscabbs.com — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 10:28:00 -0500

Ok, I see now I misread the iPhone stats - only about 20% of the class of 2012
has them.